To just despair at kids today?

[itsadlibitum]

DD, 12, is struggling socially at school. We suspect she has ADHD and as social interactions have become more complex she’s struggling with it. While she’s generally empathetic and means well she can be impulsive in what she says which doesn’t always land great with friends. I get she won’t be everyone’s cup of tea. But what I don’t get is the nastiness. She’s been attacked at school, she’s been threatened to be beat up, she’s been frozen out by a group of popular girls who told everyone not to talk to her, she’s she then left them alone they pursued her relentlessly at schools with confrontations o er various accusations, including waiting for her outside the toilets etc. she’s been called a ginger cunt, regularly is told to shut the fuck up, told her parents should have used a condom, everyone hates her etc etc etc. the This is all over minor arguments.

DD is scared and now hates school. She’s miserable and stressed. School isn’t being particularly helpful is helping to resolve it, but that’s an entirely different post.

i remember arguments and bitchiness from my own childhood of course. Girls have always been mean. But the severity and nastiness is just so shocking to me. I feel like she’s completely unraveling and there isn’t anything I can do to help her.

AIBU to think that children now a days are just loads meaner than they used to be? Or was I just lucky and this is “normal”. Struggling with a decent reference point here.

@Passaggressfedup

It's easy to just assume people are naturally nasty to perfectly innocent people. It's very rarely that black and white.

Sometimes it really IS that black and white. I did absolutely nothing to my bullies. I just looked different. They picked up on that as bullies do. They seek out differences as weaknesses.

What's that supposed to mean?

Yeah, schools need a programme in place to split up gangs of bullies like this. At least for a month. Move everyone around until they get the message that any continuing bullying will result in a permanent move.

It's not fair to expel because they can't always get the evidence, but they need stronger powers and decisive routes of action in cases like this.

Would be helpful if they structured schools differently anyway to separate out different subjects around the city and provide opportunities for socialising kids across friendship groups from a wider field to 'find their people' and prevent gangs from forming. But that's a different thread.

Sometimes it really IS that black and white
Of course, sometimes, but not the majority of the time. There is no harm done to self reflect even if the conclusion was that the situation is black and white.

If that was my child, homeschooling and clubs. Unless a place in another school turned up.

It is victim blaming. I’ve read the comments for myself as a lot happens by messaging. I’m not saying she’s played no part in conflict, but the reaction IS disproportionate. Or do you think it’s completely reasonable to be physically attacked in school and she just needs to reflect on her own behaviour? Maybe if she just controls herself a bit better no one will call her a cunt or threaten to beat her up after school?

Oh yeah I definitely remember the "can't you just get on with people?". Most bullying victims just want to be left alone by their tormentors.

Yes, I agree, the school structure doesn't really work. IME sixth form college style does. I went to a very big London comp, there were lots of tribes of children as a result, however the challenging teenagers were horrendous. Definitely knife carrying and threatening behaviour on the buses etc.

This isn't normal behaviour but nasty, feral teenagers seem to be a thing now, both in and out of schools. Sorry I know thats not helpful. Would she agree to do some clubs if you offer to homeschool? Does she have any particular interests that would tempt her to join. Maybe you could put her on the waiting list for schools and homeschool in the meantime. I wouldn't leave her there though, especially as the school don't seem to be doing anything. Its a very difficult situation op, I feel for you.

The trouble is though even if there are reasons a child is dysfunctional, family issues, environment they have been brought up in, that's no help to the child who is on the recieving end of their behavioural problems. I'm not sure in the OP's case how children using language like that i.e. Name calling but with such extreme language and physical assault, you would conclude there is anything other than dysfunctionality issues and poor upbringing with the bullies?

The girl who assaulted her was suspended and moved class.

this new gang they seem to be ok with. When I asked the school to intervene after they cornered her outside the bathroom the pastoral care lady said “well we can’t stop them talking to her, can we”. I’ve escalated it with the SLT and now they are doing some restorative conversation which dd is mortified about as she thinks it will make matters worse, but before that the school seemed to only really take things that got physical as an issue. I think the psychological stuff, the social exclusion etc feels worse for dd, although she’s also scared due to the threat of physical harm.

Sounds like lip service really and I think of the staff are as useless as that you are probably not going to get anywhere. Is her name on any waiting lists?

Yes, I have contacted all the surrounding acceptable schools. There is space at one school, but it’s much the same and known for bullying and poor behaviour. Plus her primary school bully goes there so it would just be throwing her to the wolves.

Thing is it's not just the "nasty feral" ones who are the bullies. Most of my bullies were the "popular" kids, i.e. in school sports teams, in school plays, etc., which is why they got away with it because the teachers thought they could do no wrong and, like some posters here, thought the victim was responsible!

I totally disagree. As someone who has had to tackle constant bullying of my ND daughter it wasn’t the ND kids that were bad, it was the calculated, planned and cold heartedly nasty actions of some truly vile NT individuals that affected my child every time. Don’t go giving these vile little brats the ‘ND’ excuse. They were just truly horrid scum.

I’d recommend contacting the police for any harassment involving social media or any physical assaults, and pressing charges if you can, and also contacting your MP. Schools are useless on bullying. They just want to sweep it all under the carpet.

The violence and threats came from kids I’d describe as having challenging home lives.

The less obvious, social exclusion stuff come from the popular “mean girls” group as far as I can make out. I know you never know what goes on behind closed doors, but judging by social media they do not look like their home circumstances are super challenging.

We’ve reported the physical threats to the police. We - maybe stupidly in hindsight - let the assault be dealt with by school.

How did you know exactly who was ND and who was NT? I’m not sure you can make assumptions like that about every single child.

regardless, ND or not, it’s not excusable to physically hurt, threaten or bully other kids. Not sure what your daughter has been impulsively saying but obviously if they’ve been hurtful comments, that’s not acceptable either, ND or not. It’s absolutely not ok that she is too scared to go into school and the school are being unhelpful.

this kind of behaviour has always happened. My sister got punched in the face, had death threats, was bullied relentlessly. We had to get the police involved for the death threats, they were scary.

What else should she put such bullying behaviour down to?

I was bullied so badly in a new school in 1982 that my mother withdrew me for the rest of the year and then we moved anyway. I’ve never forgotten the psychological impact of it. 46 years ago!

Red hair, overweight, underweight, tall, short, freckles, dorky, glasses, etc - lots of reasons why bullies pick on people. It's ALWAYS because they are different in some way.

What kind of neurodiversity causes someone to call their peer a "ginger cunt"?
I mean i guess the whole lot of these nasty girls could have Tourette's, but that seems extremely statistically unlikely.

Your daughter is absolutely right to be terrified of the restorative justice. Its based on the mistaken belief that kids only bully as they don't realise the hurt they are causing, so once the child explains it hurt them, the bullies will see the light and stop.

What happens in reality is that the poor bullied child has to expose themselves emotionally in front of the bullies, and the bullies say the right things in front of the teacher, and then use the additional information they have gained on what hurts most to target their bullying most effectively.

I heard a programme where a representative from childline ( or similar child support line) spoke about the hundreds of calls they got from bullied children who had been through this and it had made the situation worse. They never told the teachers as they no longer trusted them. So the teachers don't realise it does not work. She was very, very angry with RJ and the damage it is causing.

I am honestly aghast to find that schools are still doing this. I am aghast they ever did it. Its so fucking naive.

Everything I have written in this post is from that lady on the phone line who has to pick up the pieces of kids who have been further traumatised and made vulnerably by RJ. Please support your daughter and stop the school from putting her through this. Your daughter understands full well how it will go.

As someone who has been through telling someone how much they hurt you and have them be cruel to me after that, it is incredibly painful. Don't put your daughter through it.

As for homeschooling - it does not have to be isolating - why not look into what homeschooling communities there are or see what groups they are for afterschool/ weekend activities your daughter may like.

I'm sorry your poor baby is going through this OP, these kids sound awful.
I would definitely be trying to change schools ASAP.

Just as an aside, my beautiful ginger-haired daughter was also bullied for her red hair, and she absolutely adores this song and felt ever so special when she first heard it.