To just despair at kids today?

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DD, 12, is struggling socially at school. We suspect she has ADHD and as social interactions have become more complex she’s struggling with it. While she’s generally empathetic and means well she can be impulsive in what she says which doesn’t always land great with friends. I get she won’t be everyone’s cup of tea. But what I don’t get is the nastiness. She’s been attacked at school, she’s been threatened to be beat up, she’s been frozen out by a group of popular girls who told everyone not to talk to her, she’s she then left them alone they pursued her relentlessly at schools with confrontations o er various accusations, including waiting for her outside the toilets etc. she’s been called a ginger cunt, regularly is told to shut the fuck up, told her parents should have used a condom, everyone hates her etc etc etc. the This is all over minor arguments.

DD is scared and now hates school. She’s miserable and stressed. School isn’t being particularly helpful is helping to resolve it, but that’s an entirely different post.

i remember arguments and bitchiness from my own childhood of course. Girls have always been mean. But the severity and nastiness is just so shocking to me. I feel like she’s completely unraveling and there isn’t anything I can do to help her.

AIBU to think that children now a days are just loads meaner than they used to be? Or was I just lucky and this is “normal”. Struggling with a decent reference point here.

Yes, its a myth that all bullies are all suffering terribly home lives and trauma themselves.

Many bullies are like these girls you describe. They actually have very good social skills. And they use it to be effective bullies in the way you describe.

Its why restorative justice initiatives are so harmful. The bullies know exactly what they are doing and enjoy it. All RJ does is give them more ammo.

Bulling of the highest order. Change school.

A very close friend's daughter (Lucy, name changed) has been dealing with similar, OP. We are not in Kent but are in another home county, if relevant.

My friend has 2 older sons; neither encountered the nastiness that Lucy has had to ensure with horrible, spiteful girl groups in school. My friend and Lucy really struggled with this but Lucy eventually removed herself from all of these girls, especially the ring leader who, believe it or not, was actually her closest friend growing up! Lucy found this very confusing. The ability for this to continue after school via messages is awful. At least when I was at school, you could escape it when home.

Anyway, the school helped with some tactics. Lucy is quite introverted and enjoys reading and art, so she would either go to a club or the library at break and lunchtimes. She eventually made a new best friend, a boy, and he has introduced Lucy to his group of male friends. She is much happier in school now and the boys have really stood up for her against this nasty girl clique. They now leave Lucy alone.

There is another thread running suggesting the need to go back to segregated schools but my own experience and also, Lucy's, is that I liked mixed school for this reason. My best friend throughout secondary school was male (not due to bullying but I never liked the bitching and sudden exclusion of someone, often just because the ringleader deems it, of the girl group).

OP, is there a local Scout group you could look at? It might be worth speaking to them. I am a Scout Leader and we have mostly boys but normally 5 or 6 girls in each group. There will be a waiting list but it might be worth a try. Scout Leaders do not tolerate unkindness for 1 second; they help promote friendships that can extend to outside the club.

I am sorry you are going through this, I saw what it did to my friend and Lucy and I feel for you.

When I went to secondary school 1956-1960 schools were not very interested in bullying unless it became extreme. They became involved when I broke the nose of a boy who had been tormenting younger girls for weeks. He was 13 and we were 11. So there were significant differences in size and strength. When you break a boys nose and he gets taken to hospital it quickly gets around that you are not one to "mess with". I could have been bullied because I was a swat or because my parents (and therefore my clothes) were poor but I experienced little of that. Most of it was in the form of snide comments from girls I looked down on anyway. Girls who quickly became pregnant.

Yes, that sounds standard and it's a pathetically non-impactful way of handling bullying. Their hands are tied though. Because there aren't currently any decent avenues for dealing with this. It needs a huge change in policy and infrastructure. And it needs people who understand the system to get it done.

I'm a little envious that this is shocking to you as it was very par for the course when I was a teen.

I'll let others suggest strategies for managing the school/behaviour, but where I will weigh in is to recommend finding her some out of school activities and friends so she has a better world to escape to and the horrible school stuff isn't her whole life. Keep spending quality time with her yourself.

Really sorry to hear this sort of thing still goes on, its not nice at all and it must also be so traumatic for parents to see their kids going through it amd feeling helpless.

I think you were lucky tbh.

I am 46 and was at secondary school between 1992 and 1997. It was absolutely brutal: fights and threats and homophobia and a fair amount of racism.

I do sympathise, but I don’t think it’s a new thing unfortunately.

Totally agree. Society is vile. I would hate to.ne at school today and would hate to be a teacher.
I know what parent who has a son at school just started year 7 and another boy said I'm gonna rape your mum.or similar?
You couldn't have imagined hearing this years ago could you. I guess bullying has always gone but it's got worse and what comes out of people's mouths is getting alot worse.
Sometimes I think it must be great to be home educated or educated you don't have to.piy up with the all the problems and bullying that come with going to school.

Re messages you can block them.

I would keep her out of school in the short term, and tell the attendance officer when they contact you, which they will, that she is not physically or mentally safe at school, and until they can take steps to deal with the issue, you can't send her back. You can explain that you have already contacted the school about this, but they have not been able to keep her safe.

You don't say!😂

Very naive to think it's all that simple.

This is what I think. The lady called me with dd there to convince her to sit down with 3 of them together. When I explained she was sacred she just kept repeating “well if she won’t engage there’s nothing I can do. What to you expect me to do if she refuses to engage” on repeat. She even said - again in front of dd - “this will teach her for setting up TikTok’s” (long story and before anyone suggests dd is causing this herself this was a totally harmless thing one of her bullies decided to use against her - I’ve seen it all) and “you told me yourself she’s no angel”. This is the woman dd went to distressed and scared who basically said I won’t help you and it’s your own fault anyway.

I am so upset at the whole thing and how the school has dealt with it. Luckily dd has one friend she can be with while we sort it out if they just get these girls to stop actively pursuing her. But j take all your points onboard and if things continue/ get worse we will look at whether removing her without another school place is the best option.

Restorative justice is only popular cause it’s very cheap. Putting vile kids into PRU - which if they started doing more often would nip low level bullying across the school community in the bud - is expensive.

I think kids or not not robust these days things that would not have bothered me bother them

Could you please expand? You wouldn’t be bothered about being assaulted?

I can assure you that the daily verbal abuse, and frequent assault, physical abuse and property theft/damage would have bothered me just as much today as it did decades ago.

The OP and her DD are absolutely right not to put up with the level of bullying she's suffering.

Another award-winning comment.

I will be nominating this one for Most Helpful Comment of the Year to the top people at Mumsnet.

I feel in no doubt that once the King hears about this, he will want to Knight you for changing other people's lives for the better @zoeslim

It would bother me as an adult who has adult perspective, logic and agency. Nevermind as a 12 year old.

Disagree things they are coming out with are alot worse. I put on another post about a boy in year 7 having another boy say to him I'm going to rape your mum
Definitely wouldn't have heard that years ago.
Don't understand bullying. Life's much easier when your nice.
Why do people want to be cruel and horrible isn't life hard enough?

Nice trying to belittle people's comments
INo wonder bullying goes on. Your part of the problem.

I’m so sorry your daughter is going through this.

this is one thing though where I don’t think it’s about ‘these days’. I had a miserable time in year 9 in 1992, my daughters did not so long ago. Maybe this shit has started a bit younger but it isn’t new.

And to be clear - take it seriously. The stuff I went through at 13 still affects me now. It’s appalling and it fucks you up and I was no more resilient just because it was 1992. It’s just, sadly, not new.

It is absolutely horrendous and I totally agree she needs to move school.

Can I suggest scouts as a good outlet there can be a lot of the more out there types, plenty of ND kids thrive there with the set up.

I hope you get sorted. I have a quirky out there ND kid and he has no friends but equally kids leave him alone so far. The thoughts of him being a target for bullying is so sad and it is on our mind a fair bit. I do feel so sorry for your DD and for you as parents experiencing it.

Your poor DD, honestly I'd look far and wide for a new school place. I don't recognize this type of behaviour at all from my own or my DC's experience - they are in y9.

It's parents to blame, really. And the school system. I'm very grateful to all the teachers, but they don't get enough support and respect these days, and schools don't make it a priority to keep teachers. Not saying bullying never happened in the 90s, but some teachers had been at the school for decades and taught the parents and grandparents of the current group, and got supported to stop most violence happening. But now, even teachers are attacked, and towards the end of last century, Ofsted started and teachers say bullying has got far worse since.