Ds might be suspended after fight please help

[SparrowHaze]

i am honestly panicking a bit and dont really know what im asking here maybe i just need to write it down because i cant make any sense of what has happened today

ds is 17, year 13 and ive just got him home from college after he was involved in a fight with another boy in the common room

college have said they are investigating and he cant go back to lessons until they have made a decision about what happens next, which i know is serious obviously and im not saying he shouldnt face consequences because you cant just hit someone but this is so unlike him and thats what is worrying me

he is not some violent kid, hes a normal 17 year old can be moody and argumentative and all the usual teenager stuff but he has never been someone who gets into fights, certainly not at college

the boy he was fighting is actually one of his friends which is making it even more strange, theyre all in the same group and have been for ages, a very loud group of boys really and if im honest ive wondered before whether ds wouldnt be better off with some different friends

theyre always winding each other up and making comments about girls and things being “banter” and trying to embarrass each other, its just what theyre like and ds normally gives as good as he gets so ive never really known whether i should be worrying about it or just accepting that teenage boys are idiots sometimes

ive heard some of the things they say when ive picked ds up or theyve been around and some of it really isnt very nice but they all laugh and call it banter and ds has never seemed particularly bothered by it and ds is the same so i dont think its bullying or anything like that

apparently there was an argument before the fight and the other boy said something to him but ds wont tell me what

ive asked him in the car, ive asked him since we got home and every time its just “nothing”i said well it cant have been nothing if you got into a fight over it and he just shrugged then literally nothing, just staring out the window

he looks exhausted and ive asked him if hes hurt and he said no but he is definitely not himself

and this has been going on for a little while really, hes been much quieter at home and more irritable but just says he’s fine

i just put it down to year 13 because obviously theyre under pressure and hes got exams and everything coming up

the thing is if this was just their normal stupid banter then why would he react like this he must have been pushed really far for him to actually snap because i honestly cannot imagine him just deciding to punch one of his friends for no reason

and i know that sounds like im making excuses for him and im not, im absolutely furious that hes got himself into this situation and he knows better but i also feel like there is something hes not telling me

college said there were witnesses and they are going to speak to people and work out exactly what happened, theyve said ds cant just come back in tomorrow and carry on as normal and they will contact us when theyve decided what theyre doing

when we got home ds just went upstairs. i asked him one more time what happened and he said “mum ive told you, nothing happened”

and now im sat downstairs wondering what on earth is going on because something clearly is and he is obviously not going to tell me

i’m also worrying about the consequences and if hes suspended. what happens then hes got his a levels this year

Sometimes a good long walk or drive helps them talk - no eye contact, no distractions.

It sounds like it might be related to something he isn't willing to tell you about. It might not be about himself - I know DD's friend group kept stumm from parents about one of them being trans for over two years, and I'm sure if there had been any blow-up about it at school she would not have wanted to break that confidence. If it's something like that, he's in a really difficult position.

@SparrowHaze The huge problem with banter is that it can get personal and nasty. The fact that they are loud is not very pleasant either. If your DS cannot work out for himself that bants and loud arguments are not acceptable at college he needs to grow up. He probably will get a fixed term exclusion but he deserves it.

He won’t tell you what the boy said because it was inevitably disgusting. Not what he’s prepared to say to his mum! It’s also an admission that his friends are low level “scum”. However this is the company he keeps and he’s as bad as they are.

There is not much you can do. If dc in the common room say your ds was provoked he might get less time out. You really need to get through to him that his card is marked now and he needs to steer clear of loud arguments. Clearly these dc know how to push his buttons so they might try again. The college might have a talk it through policy and this could be helpful.

He won't be the first or last person to be in a fight.
Don't give it do much energy. It's his problem not yours.. Definitely a bunch of strangers can't do anything.

I really hope the college gets to the bottom of this, as clearly the way your son has reacted today and the change in his behaviour recently means something quite serious has been said to push you son into a physical reaction.
Possibly note down the shift in his behaviour - times, dates etc, so you can feed this back to the college. Too often, the child that hits out gets the blame, when actually they've been really pushed into that reaction.
Please also let your son know you will support him. He clearly needs to tell you something but possibly has to process it himself first. Suggest he writes you a letter if he can't bear to tell you.
FWIW my brother wasn't a hitter but a couple of times at secondary school, some lads just kept winding him up and he lashed out. School investigated and soon realised that, whilst he shouldn't have hit out, the other lads should have left him alone. School took no further action. (Think one set of parents tried to but were told their son was out of order with his behaviour and they had to accept it!)

I hope your son is ok OP. He sounds very similar to my DS17 and in year 13 and would react the same. Just give him time to process and calm down and try speaking to him again. Someone else suggested a great idea of a walk or a drive so there is no eye contact

Yes, make it clear that school are going to tell you, so he should tell you first. He will be quiet because he knows he’s screwed up.

Much is going to depend on what you’re told by school. If he reacted badly to provocation you’re going to need to at least talk to him about how to respond in future as he could have left the room. If school blames him for starting a fight then he could be looking at a longer exclusion. As far as I’m aware he would be set work and expected to do before he returns. Either way you’re going to need to talk to him about whether these friendships are helping him as it doesn’t sound as though they are.

We were both very aware of the risk of this with our two at that age and a bit younger as both do martial arts and could have seriously hurt someone if they reacted like that - and I would not have put it past our younger (now 18) to do that.

“It’s not nice but seems to be the dynamic of their friendship group.”

This is excusing it.

The reason boys like this turn into men who act disgustingly is because they were never called out.

You should be having conversations with your son about what is and isn’t ok in a friendship/relationship and how real friends don’t tease and push you to the point of violence.

More conversations need to be had with boys so they don’t turn into asshole men who were never educated because they were just “having banter”

Leave him be. He doesn't want to discuss it and you will not help him by insisting he tells you or harping on about it. It's irrelevent now to a certain extent. He's told you that the other boy 'asked for it'.

I agree with pp who said take him up a drink and a snack and tell him to put it out his head now, it's done, and you are there for him if he wants to talk. Tell him it's not the end of the world.

It's not. He'll probably get suspended for a physical fight, 2/3 days would be normal. I've worked with teens for a lot of years and this is often how boys resolve things. It will blow over, and if they have been friends then they are likely to forget about this and settle down.

Just carry on as normal with him. Don't make a massive, anxious deal out of it.

He needs to know "you are known by the company you keep". Banter is always unpleasant and he has chosen the company of these boys! Maybe they went too far in his opinion or they turned on him, but he is part of this group.

I’m not excusing things but how do you suggest i stop a 17 year old being friends with someone/ a group? Alot of teen boys have this dynamic in a friendship group and don’t turn into asshole men, they grow up eventually and besides the banter thing isn’t relevant anyway because usually ds gives as good as he gets nor saying it’s right but it’s how it is.

I don’t think a sixthform college does fixed term exclusions, that’s more of a school thing so i worry they’ll just remove him from the college. they’ve already said they have a zero tolerance to fighting. also the fact ds won’t say what caused it isn’t helping as he isn’t saying what the other boy said which means he will get away with it. especially because some of the other witnesses were boys part of the same group which means they could possibly take the other boys side

Where do you live? We had a not so distant murder in a school, child on child in England.

Have the police been involved? That would really ramp up the situation.

How is it not the OP's problem? She must be really worried.

Sorry but at 17 I think my parents would’ve taken a much harsher stance!! It’s unacceptable and he needs to know that. In 12 months he will be 18, able to drink, and if he thinks fighting is okay now then god knows what he’ll get up to when alcohol is involved!!!

He tells you why or he loses everything - phone, tv, everything but college work to stay up to date.

@SparrowHaze You have very low expectations! You obviously have not cared too much about who he is friends with and applaud him for giving as good as he got! He’s now getting a bit more and he doesn’t like it. You are far too lenient in your view of banter and boys often shift to misogynistic and sexual banter that’s unpleasant.

A 6th form college should have exclusion rules as dc are under 18. A short exclusion/suspension won’t be changed by representation though. Have you bothered to look up their behaviour and sanctions policy? I would do that right now. A permanent exclusion can happen if the attack was severe and unprovoked. You do need to read the law on this and the relevant college policies.

You will just have to wait for the outcome of the college’s investigation. Your son is in FAFO territory. Fights should be treated seriously. Help him but don’t completely shield him from the consequences.

“A lot of teen boys have this dynamic in a friendship group.”

Again….you’re excusing the behaviour.

If your daughter friends were behaving like this or having the kind of “banter” that you’ve already said you’ve heard and isn’t nice, you’d be saying there girls weren’t her friends and were bullies and that she must never act like that to people as it’s not nice. Yet when it’s boys it’s just “what they do” and “banter”

It sounds like you could use some education on toxic male behaviour as well as your son. You may not realise you’re even thinking this way, but you are.

Do you really think your judgemental comments are helpful right now ?

Do you think minimising and excusing his behaviour will be helpful?

He needs to talk to you so that when he does get called back into college to either be told he isn't welcome back or what will happen going forwards he cannot say "the other boy deserved it."

No one, no one deserves to be attacked. You can tell him that if he doesn't tell you what was said then college are likely to so you need to know so you can help him avoid being excluded.

There is no legal right to be educated beyond 16, this isn't school, this is deadly serious. He needs to come at this from a I am incredibly sorry for my actions standpoint.

He can write down what happened if he cannot tell you but he is risking messing up his A levels right now. Why would another sixth form/college want a violent student? He needs to try to ensure he gets back into this one.

There is a chance the other parents are talking to the police. If your son threw the first punch then he needs to understand that he might be investigated by the police. He needs to talk to you now.

The issue here op is you’ve tried to blame his behaviour on the others, make it not his fault. It’s them and their behaviour and he’s the innocent victim,

but it’s not their fault. It’s his.

I don’t think it’s helpful to repeatedly hector the OP. She’s come here for help.

OP - you can report your own thread and ask MNHQ to move it to a different board. AIBU is fighty and I don’t think that’s what you need right now!

I don’t think anyone is doing that though? They’re responding to her minimising the behaviour. It’s very much “boys will be boys” and blaming everyone else for him getting into a fight.

I’m not minimising or excusing his behaviour or blaming others. I’ve already said i’m furious with him and yes he was in the wrong for fighting and he should know better but he’s never been a violent kid or the type to get into fights so it’s out of character for him and that the “banter” doesn’t normally bother him and he laughs along so i’m just wondering why now, doesn’t mean i’m blaming anyone but the boy must’ve said something to cause him to snap and he won’t say what which isn’t helping matters and i do think him not taking accountability and giving his version will go against him in some way and if the other boy did do something he’s likely to get away with it.

I know this is serious, he’s in year 13 and he’s got his a levels coming up so he could’ve just thrown his a levels away because the college don’t need to keep him this isn’t like school where he has to go. i know “legally” kids have to be in education til 18 (ds is 18 in november anyway) but they don’t seem to check or anything and aren’t as strict about it like they are school attendance (year 11 and younger years)