To think it's impossible to work full time and keep a clean/tidy house without a cleaner?

[FishfingerFlinger]

I feel like I'm constantly desperately trying to keep our house from falling into complete squalor, panicking about unexpected guests when the place looks like a bombsite and it's all generally getting me down.

If you're generally keeping on top of having a presentable, clean house while having a full-time job, DC, but without paying a cleaner...HOW DO YOU DO IT?

Like, really break it down for me - what are you doing, when are you doing it, how much time does it take? Where am I going wrong?

(and before anyone says its a DH problem - he more than pulls his weight, has a demanding full time job and is also managing a renovation project on the side so he's swamped).

Actually I think one thing that has made things worse is that I switched jobs from one where I had lots of big "listen in" meetings where I could be camera off and folding washing, to one where that isn't the meeting culture at all. Reckon I used to have an hour or two a week of multi-tasking meeting+chores (and weirdly I find it easier to focus when I can occupy myself with a mindless physical task vs staring at a screen trying to do my "listening face".

Lower your standards or get a cleaner. These are your options.

It is possible. You just have to get rid of 50% of your stuff.

We have a big house (5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms), a big garden where we grow things, full-time jobs, 2 kids, and a third one on the way.

A few years ago, we started plastic-free living. Slowly, I began getting rid of plastic — I mean everything, including furniture, beauty products, kitchen accessories, children’s items, etc.
I was shocked by how little we had left and also by how difficult it is to find or buy non-plastic items. I didn’t go crazy washing every plastic item before getting rid of it; I just gradually replaced things when needed. We have fewer clothes because we don’t buy polyester. My bathroom routine is literally all soap bars, and all my beauty products come in glass jars.

We do have a lovely home, and it isn’t empty or minimalist in the sense of having nothing. I just choose different materials: antique and wooden furniture, wooden or metal utensils, glass containers, and other items made from natural, long-lasting materials. This way, I’m not surrounded by mountains of stuff that just gets moved around the house and never get used.

Also, constant tidying makes a huge difference. My kids are young, but they don’t go upstairs to sleep until they tidy up, put dirty clothes in the laundry room, etc.

While my husband or I put them to bed, the other person cleans downstairs — dishes, hoovering, taking out the bins, and so on. That way, by 7:30, we have a clean house and can relax.

We use weekends to catch up on bathrooms and do a very deep clean of the house, probably once every two months. I take unpaid leave for this because a professional deep-cleaning service would cost so much, and I’m never fully happy with the results anyway. I’d rather lose a day’s pay and do it myself.

I use an app because I couldn't be arsed negotiating with people who were unreliable and expensive. Now if my cleaner cancels, the app finds me another.

Which app is this please @BushyDreamer

Something isn't effortless because it's part of a routine, it simply removes the thinking element. The effort is always there.

Using your coat and bag analogy. I always hang up my coat and bag but I can objectively see this takes more time than dumping them near the door. Yes, I would end up tidying them away eventually if I had enough of the mess or a visitor came but that wouldn't be everyday.

So say it takes 2 minutes to hang up my coat and bag vs dumping them near the front door (we have storage for coats and bags at the back of the house). Over an average week I might need to do this twice a day so that's 28 minutes in the week versus sat 6 minutes if I did it a few times in the week when guests were coming or I've had enough. My point is it all adds up. Running the hoover around downstairs might take 5 minutes a day but that's 35 minutes a week. Alternatively I could do it less often and save time. Not everything is making work for yourself by doing it less often. Quite often you are saving yourself time but have to accept that your environment won't be as nice and there may be some crunch points where living like this creates problems.

I think pretending that chores can be done in no time or effortlessly devalues the work involved. It's why women like the OP are frustrated that they can't do it all easily like others portray and why men often think they shouldn't do it at all. You can wipe the sink whilst brushing your teeth or iron whilst watching the TV but you are taking away the little gaps in the day that people often need to decompress and unwind if they've been flat out at work, had to deal with children, cooked, done homework, sorted out the house insurance etc. We are not meant to be 'productive' all the time and optimising our time like this and many is us struggle with it.

Our house is tidy. Not perfectly clean and I keep finding places I kind of forgot about (cleaned out a few kitchen cabinets over the weekend and it was horrifying) but I do keep up in between and can always have someone pop round for the most part.

Ruthless decluttering - we still have random crap shoved into random drawers but really, really cut down bringing anything into the house without getting rid of something in turn. We have an 'in between' box in the garage where I chuck things that I know we don't need but don't have the headspace to deal with properly - deal with that pile every couple of months.

Doing a blitz with the kids on the weekend. Almost every weekend we all (the 4 of us) spend about an hour cleaning the house. My son dusts, my daughter does the bathrooms, I do the kitchen, my husband hoovers. It was very, very painful to get this into our weekly system but the kids are pretty much used to it now and far less whiny about it. I also am not shy about paying them extra to do extra things. My daughter wanted something specific so she cleaned the car and the doors (we have glass doors inside that are always, always disgusting).

Reset every single day - even just getting the crap into the right room every day can help a 'lot'. So always bringing something upstairs if heading upstairs (my son's D&D stuff migrates!). Always bringing something downstairs if heading downstairs.

My daughter is ND and a massive, massive slob. She's 13 and her room is an absolute nightmare. I tidy it out every Friday (work compressed hours so Friday afternoon off) just to keep it reasonable. She hates it but is welcome to do it herself if she wants me to stay out of her room. I timed myself last week and it took me 11 minutes to reset her whole room. It's not perfect but it's not horrific either. I am for 'okay' and move on :-)

I personally think the main things are to have everything in the house has a place to live so it's easy to put stuff away and you know where everything goes. Less stuff = less chaos. No clutter. Have a bag for things you no longer want in a cupboard and take it to the charity shop whenever you're passing. I set myself little time slots - 'tidy ten', 'tidy twenty' and 'tidy thirty' depending on what I need to do. I have a few music playlists for that exact amount of time and I tidy and clean to that time/music and that's then that. It's amazing how much you can achieve if you are focused and not faffing about and put your mind to it. I choose to do that so I can then get on with enjoying my evening or my weekend! I think the key is starting from a place of organization so you have a base line. So have a really good sort through to get to that point. Do one room per weekend to get on top of it to start with, and then go from there. After a few weekends, every room should be organised and so tidying and cleaning, then will take less time. Also having good tools helps. ie a good vacuum cleaner and good mop, good cleaning cloths and nice smelling cleaning products etc. Lots of good advice on this thread. Especially the person who said don't sit down when you get in from work and just crack on with something. I am like that at the weekends. Sometimes I get myself up and get my 'achieving' done and can then enjoy the rest of the time.

I get this.

DH listens to podcasts. I have a tablet that is connected to our various streaming services and I often have it n while I'm cleaning/folding laundry etc. Obviously, choose light entertainment that doesn't require a lot of focus!

I have an ironing lady (is that something you could do if you have a lot of ironing) and she tells me she gets through a LOT of box sets!

Of course its possible. A cleaner might do 3 hours a week. If there are 2 adults, thats 90 mins each - fraction of a weekend.

Get kids trained - everything goes away before bed. They sort clothes, peg out washing, strip and make beds....
They can clear the table, load the dishwasher. Wipe the surfaces down each evening.

DH wfh. He keeps most if the washing under control - and the kids bring it in when they get back from school.

That lot keeps the house vaguely under control in the week.

Weekends - dust, vacuum, mop, kitchen, bathrooms, beds (with kids help).

No throws, no cushions, minimal ornaments to dust round.... Honestly, I think you need less storage, with massively less stuff.

It is possible but not to keep the house spotless. Things that help:

Robot hoover - with two dogs this makes the big difference as you can just set if off. I think next time I would get one that mops as well. It does the whole of the downstairs.

Getting rid of “stuff” - with one ASD child plus a 4 year old we have a lot of useless stuff. We regularly have clear out and sort through stuff, move furniture around to make the best use of space etc. That doesn’t mean they have to throw away all their toys but we have a kallax unit so they can chuck stuff in there.

Pick one room a week and focus on this - An hour to deep clean/tidy a room makes a difference and you can cycle through the rooms. Guests are not going to be going upstairs so any midweek tidying focuses on the downstairs. This week I did the upstairs hallway, cleaned the carpets and put all the stuff That had migrated there back where it belongs.

Have a list of what needs doing daily - clearing the kitchen tab, washing up, hoovering or whatever it might be. One person does the downstairs things while the other is putting the kids to bed so by the time you are both downstairs together you can sit down.

I pay a cleaner for 3 hours a week. My house is still a mess. She comes and cleans and it’s spotless until everyone gets home. Then I can’t stay on top of it for another 6 days. Until she comes again. So yes it helps, but no it doesn’t answer all your prayers. The only thing that would is a DAILY house keeper!

and yes my husband is great and does more than me but we’re still constantly running around after young ones and juggling long hours at work plus a dog

It was hard when I was a single parent and I did prioritise what I did and what I left for another day. It was mainly piles of clean laundry that weren't put away - dullest household chore ever!

It was easy enough with two adults though even with both working full time.

We just didn't waste any moments and worked quickly! Eg we wiped the surfaces while we were waiting for the kettle to boil; washed up while dinner was cooking and whoever hadn't cooked cleaned/washed up etc afterwards; cleaned the shower before getting out of it; sprayed/wiped over the sink after using it; cleaned the toilet before leaving the house for work; tidied the living room as we went; the children stripped their on beds, washed the bedlinen and remade their beds on a Sunday morning - apparently using the washing machine is fun when you're under 10! Basically, it was a case of doing something as soon as we noticed it needed doing so the tasks didnt add up.

Whoever wasn't doing something was with the children.

We still managed to sit down and watch a film, read, do hobbies when the children had gone to bed most nights.

It wwasn't lways like that though there was a time when we'd sit around chatting while the other cooked or leave things for the weekend but it just meant that every Saturday morning was spent 'blitzing' the house and it did our heads in becuse the rest of the time it felt like chaos and because we'd done so much on the Saturday morning, we gave ourselves the rest of the weekend off and were back at square one!

It can be done but it has to be intentional. It won't just happen.

Things that helped when I was working with small children:
Clean the bathroom while they're in the bath. You can chat to them whilst you do it. Then the bath just needs a rinse out.
If your floors are clear the whole room looks better regardless of any other mess.
Don't buy more storage. You'll feel obliged to fill it with more crap.
Don't bother selling things you don't want. They'll sit in a spare room/cupboard for months. Just get it out of the house ( I loved those charity bins often found in the supermarket car park)
Small kids can do chores. DGD aged 3 has the 'spider brush' and hunts dust and cobwebs whenever she comes here.
Baby wipes are great for a quick wipe of anything and also get marks off clothes/ carpets.
One in, one out policy for everything. Eg if you buy a magazine an older one has to go, sort out toys before more arrive for birthdays or Christmas (without the children present).
Over all, dont worry! No one expects a show home with small children in the house.

Get rid of stuff at regular intervals. Not bits and bobs — loads of stuff. Everything needs a place. It's impossible to tidy properly/clean properly around clutter. Then you need to keep on top of things - wash up each evening and wipe down sides/table, tidy and hoover through downstairs. Wash clothes in the early morning and hung out before you leave for work; fold clothes/put away in the evening or have kids to it for pocket money. Wipe down toilet/bath/shower before you clean your teeth. Big clean at the weekend: I spend 7-12 Saturdays cleaning the house thoroughly, tidying everything away in its proper place, washing floors, dusting, skirting boards, changing sheets etc. Obviously the house gets messy still from time to time but you do need to chivvy away daily to keep on top/maintain a clean house.

It is possible. You just have to get rid of 50% of your stuff.

that

but you need to be ruthless
AND it's a constant effort.

Kids outgrow their clothes all the time, they bring back crap sorry art from school, you receive crap gifts that you are grateful for but have no use or space for. Things break, you replace them but keep the old one, you keep unwanted boxes, cables, birthday candles used one that will NEVER be used ever again, medicine becomes out of date in your medicine cabinet..

You need to declutter your house, properly
but then make the effort to keep decluttering as you go.

I find the "one in = one out" a life saver. You don't need 25 bottles of shampoo cluttering the bathroom, if you buy new mugs, get rid of the old ones, and if you buy a new coat, ask yourself if you really need the other 4.

I have a ridiculous (according to DP) amount of shoes and trainers, but they're not clutter, I use them all on different occasions, so I keep them until they die 😂

I don't have a cleaner - I'd hate it! I want everything to be 'just so' and it wouldn't be if someone else was cleaning my house.

I hate mess, bits, dust, etc. and will definitely sacrifice sitting around to get the house clean. Like others, I keep on top of it by wiping round the toilet & sink every day, hoovering every couple of days and tidying every evening after work/gym/eating.

Then it only takes a couple of hours on a Friday to get the house nice for the weekend 🙂

I've used one which does this called Housekeep. The cleaners are hit and miss - some are good, some are not so good. I like it because I can book ad-hoc cleaners but are tightening our belts a bit at the moment so it's a rareity!

We both work full time (mon-Fri) and my house is pristine (😅 if I must say so myself)…how? We tidy as we go, all the time, we are EXTREMELY organised, everything has its place and goes back asap. Example- I clean the bathroom practically every time I use it. The toilets get cleaned at the end of the day when needed just before I go to bed. Things like skirting boards etc get done at the weekend. I wipe down the kitchen cupboards after dinner etc.
I invested in a robot hoover/mop
Both kids are trained to put things back/clean up messes/NOT to drag their hands along the walls going up and down stairs etc.

also by staying g on top of the “small” stuff we can then do bigger jobs ad hoc without stressing, like yesterday I cleaned all the windows inside and out. It took me less than an hour.

While my husband or I put them to bed, the other person cleans downstairs — dishes, hoovering, taking out the bins, and so on. That way, by 7:30, we have a clean house and can relax.

Not trying to make excuses for myself but in trying to answer my own question of "why does this seem to have got so much HARDER than it used to be?" and thinking that having older kids would make it easier....it's the after-school activities.

When the DC were much younger I'd pick them up from nursery/after school club, do quick dinner/bath/bed and I'd have an evening from 7:30pm/8pm- even when DH was out and I was doing that solo, that's still leaving an hour or so to do chores and some time to sit down and chill before bedtime.

Now their various clubs don't finish until between 7/8/9pm depending on the week night and I do all the to-and-fro with drops and collections. It's not like there is zero time in between all the shuttling them around but days when I'm done "DC-ing" for the night at 7:30 are long gone.

It is possible, but it requires having very little clutter and the spouse helps equally and the kids have chores that become more involved as they get older. Doing some cleaning daily and everyone picking up and putting their stuff away. There aren't mounds of stuff everywhere because stuff gets put away. Storage furniture help. When the kids were young, I had a lobster crate that I used as a coffee table and toys went in there. Food prep items washed while food cooking or in dishwasher, dishes after meals or load up dishwasher. Robot vacuum is wonderful.

So declutter a lot and often, then organize your stuff.

Can I keep it a secret from my bank account?

Definitely! My favourite saying is "if you have to buy shit to store shit - you have too much shit".
Get your family on the decluttering train. Set a times for 5 minutes every day and everyone should come up with 5 items or more that they want to part with.

I use wecasa.

I think decluttering is the big thing that needs to happen. I've got some TOIL coming up after a busy period at work so I'm hoping I can use a few days to try to get on top of things.

I also hired a skip a few years ago.

I agree with whoever said not bothering to sell. Thats something you can do to maintain when you're on top of things but a skip and donating stuff to charity bins was the way I decluttered.

Also, i found leaving boxes of stuff on the driveway with signs for people to help themselves also useful.

Some people took stuff out of the skip which was also preferable to it going to landfill (and increased its capacity!)