To think it's impossible to work full time and keep a clean/tidy house without a cleaner?

[FishfingerFlinger]

I feel like I'm constantly desperately trying to keep our house from falling into complete squalor, panicking about unexpected guests when the place looks like a bombsite and it's all generally getting me down.

If you're generally keeping on top of having a presentable, clean house while having a full-time job, DC, but without paying a cleaner...HOW DO YOU DO IT?

Like, really break it down for me - what are you doing, when are you doing it, how much time does it take? Where am I going wrong?

(and before anyone says its a DH problem - he more than pulls his weight, has a demanding full time job and is also managing a renovation project on the side so he's swamped).

I did it for a week. Refused to clean unless the house was tidy. It worked.

Yeah I get that these things are still things that need to be done but I also think it’s disingenuous for people to carry on like they are taxing tasks that require all their attention day in and day out…which is what happens on here tbf. There is definitely a middle ground

The MiL but that’s a different thread.
And I ignore her.

Who tidied up?

My husband and sons when they realised they couldn't find anything and there were no clean towels and no food in the fridge.

yeah, best ignore! ❤️

2 parents both work full time with a 4 and 7 year old. We do both work some days from home and utilise every lunch to keep on top of it but i just can’t relax on an evening unless the house is somewhat put together.

Things I found that helped was lowering expectations, ultimately I want our house to feel like a lived in and loved home not a show home. Also the ‘don’t put down put away’ method. I was forever finding things that I just put down instead of the extra 30 seconds it would take for me to put it where it belonged we have also sort of loosely implemented this with the kids eg if they have finished playing instead of get ting the next pile out put it away first, expectations are low but does work on the odd occasion

more onerous Jobs like bathroom clean I do why the kids are drying after a bath a quick once over and a deep clean on a Sunday and putting washing away ect squeezed in on lunch break or while tea is cooking.

most importantly there are two of us and both pull our weight if we both want to live in a tidy/clean house it takes both of us I do think if I was in my own/with someone who didn’t see the need a cleaner would be essential

This. Plus there's doing it, and doing it well and the cost difference can be hundreds of pounds.

We got our car insurance renewal a few weeks ago. We could have just accepted the renewal. But I spent half an hour with price comparison sites etc and got the price down by over two hundred of pounds, with a much lower excess too.

Repeat for home insurance, broadband, utilities, mobile phones, streaming packages etc etc and if you don't keep on top of the renewals, you could be throwing away hundreds of pounds a month in CBA money. Someone has to do it.

I went with a company that is known for lower quotes. My insurance is not due until November but I sorted it the other day. I got it 200 less than last year. I know I won’t get that elsewhere

Oh I do agree to an extent, definitely! There’s no way men are tying themselves up in knots over things like this.

But also, for me there’s not really an option! I am so lucky to have a career that 50 years ago would’ve been unavailable to me, which offers me financial independence and a chance to stretch my brain. But also, the housework still needs doing, the kids still need taking the school, the laundry still needs doing. My job is so incredibly flexible that I am able to be more present with the kids. My DP’s isn’t flexible, but pays well so he is not available to do those jobs during the week.

The choice is either to not bother do it either, or to find routines that work for our family and crack on with it. For me, having a house that is clean and calm is non-negotiable, and at the moment that falls more onto me. Either I can moan about it, or I can accept that actually I’m lucky to have a choice to work, and just get on with it without dwelling too much.

I think some people are genuinely disorganised and feel overwhelmed because they refuse to just sit down and deal with things but it becomes such a constant struggle, it's heavy
Look at home many parents can't keep up with 2 school emails 😂. They're happy on social media for hours

Others are generally busy, and (reasonably)resent the "admin" that takes from their free time when they've barely finished with work, kids.

So definitively a middle ground!

I also think that people are a bit hypocritical. When SAHM deal with everything during school hours, they free time to spend with or around their kids. Just because we can manage it all as well with a full time job, doesn't mean we have the same time for kids. You can't be in 2 places at once. Something has to give.
I don't feel it is untrue to say a SAHM is busy during school hours. I suspect there's a bit of jealousy here.

I do get this. But then it’s always/usually the DH who has the non flexible job that is better paying and less time so then we take on the lion’s share at home too. Because we can’t possibly push back on them to do more when they earn more and have less time.

Yes systems and routines help but we shouldn’t downplay the load.

Equality would look like men and women having equal earning power. It would look like the same amount of paternity leave as maternity , it would look like 50:50 at home in terms of cooking, cleaning, laundry, kids stuff, school pick ups, childcare, clubs, admin. The list goes on. When women get overwhelmed by all this, that’s when they dial down their careers or even step off the career ladder. By spelling out it should all be shared then that’s the only way things will improve.

Pretending it’s fine whilst we hoover the stairs at 9pm after a full day’s work is partly the reason nothing changes.

Yes I agree - I’ve said on another thread I don’t know if it still comes down to the fact that perhaps the less flexible, site based jobs (eg engineering or construction) are predominantly male heavy, or just that women make more of an effort to negotiate flexible working terms than men? I suppose both can be true!

Yes I think both can be true. When I worked full time it was definitely the societal expectation that DH would stay late and I would be the one doing the nursery pick up. I think things have changed a little. But I still think men don’t ask for flexible hours and we as women don’t want to go in to battle with them.

I had to retrain in a different career. It’s also hard to push back on your DH when he’s actually in a different country! But equally how lovely for him to travel at a moment’s notice as I was picking up the slack at home and working full time (yes I am bitter!).

I think this is why we shouldn’t downplay the consequences of us doing the lions share at home. It can have far reaching impacts. Like I said men don’t have these conversations on how to balance the cleaning and childcare with their work. They should and would it started impacting them
more.

Exactly. There's probably not a man alive who has ever cleaned the sink with his left hand while cleaning his teeth with his right.

Oh I love this!

They also never think to do things like unload the dishwasher whilst the kettle is on. Or wipe down the shower whilst the kids are in the bath. This is my point. There are systems- but they are our systems and it’s still unfair. They never have to think like this!