To disagree with my mannager about if diarrhea is reason to WfH

[HonestPenguin]

How bad would diarrhoea need to be for you to work from home?

I have had bowel surgery, and from time to time I get what I would consider to be severe diarrhoea. As an example, over the last 24 hours I have been to the toilet 14 times. It’s all very watery, and I feel some nausea and just vaguely unwell.

When talking to my manager, I explained that from time to time I may need to work from home more than expected, as a result of the bowel surgery and the severe diarrhoea I sometimes experience. Her response was to say that we all get stomach bugs and that I need to meet the expectation.

Sorry I accidentally voted wrong. YANBU

I don't think you should be working at all in this state.

i am quoite new so dont want to rock the boat too much. I would if there were performance concerns raisedvfor a condition where i am speakingbto GP and others do wfh

Does your workplace have an HR team? If your request is genuinely reasonable, and this is a chronic condition that has lasted more than 12 months, you may be covered by disability legislation, and the HR team would probably want to know that this is potentially disability discrimination.

If I was experiencing that from a stomach bug I wouldn’t be working at all. And even once better I’d be working from home for the next couple of days to avoid spreading it round the office. Is your manager really saying everyone should just carry on as normal?
In sorry to hear how unwell you feel OP, your request to wfh is beyond reasonable, in fact would be reasonable to be signed off sick in this situation where I work

I would rather that anyone with a stomach bug wasn't in the office to save it being passed round everyone else.

We can't really WFH, apart from doing training. But we do have a passport to work system (other names exist) where, if you have told the company about a chronic condition of some type, it won't count against the sickness policy.

One of my team has a bowel condition and he's been having a hard time of it lately because they've been changing his medication- he's had a load of hospital appointments, plus needing time out to be near the loo. As long as I (his line manager) am kept up to date, we can work with it. We update OOO on the rota for medical appointments, and some days he works from home and does technical training, and when he had a bad attack in the office, he let me know, I let him deal with it as suited him best, and asked if he needed a lift home if he wouldn't be okay to drive.

Obviously some of it will depend on the role - a restaurant worker may not have the same flexibility as an office worker, for example, and if someone can't manage to fulfill their vontracted hours most of the time, we would look at if they need to consider PT rather than FT or an extended stretch of time off or maybe even medical retirement or something. But it is all manageable with some communication, without being a git about it.

I do think it is a missunderstanding or pressure from above thing. I don’t know but suspect she’s been pulled up on not meeting their expectations. I do think oh would likely support her not travelling at rush hour due to condition but she does not want to go.

Op I’m so sorry that you’re going through this. I have a v sensitive bowel snd the idea of relying on a train toilet being free, and being able to get to it through crowds on time, is ridiculous. I’m so angry on your behalf.

having read a bit more of your posts, and see others plug into meetings remotely, the employer has no leg to stand on legally if they let some but not someone who is legally disabled.

Here is the legal test and brackets are my comments

• a physical (tick) or mental impairment which has a substantial (tick) and long term (has lasted or is likely to last at least a year - seems likely) adverse effect on your ability to do day to day activities (tick).

‘Frequent minor incontinence’ is explicitly listed as something which could meet the ‘substantial adverse effect’ part. Yours is not minor in any way.

Protection from discrimination is a day 1 right. They just need to be aware of your condition for the protection to kick in - which they are.

you are not rocking the boat, you are simply asking for the minimal protection of the law.

The manager has to make reasonable adjustments, so contact HR, who should intervene due to your health condition.

Right now I do not really feel well enough to work. I feel tired and shivery and have cramps in my arms and legs and tingling round my mouth. Dont know if its anxiety about doing 3 days in the office or the condition.

Are you talking about yourself in the third person?

I would be minded to assume that the expectation is that you don’t go into the office for 48 hrs after the last “event” and so send him info thanking him for his concern but explaining this isn’t an infection issue so there is no risk to the staff if you come in quicker than the normal expectation for diarrhoea

I was wondering this as well about the stomach bug thing. Is the manager expecting people to come into work with a stomach bug? I’d want to get that in writing

She is giving a standard response, her response is likely due to a mandate she has been given from her seniors. You need to put your case together, Drs letter and application for reasonable adjustments. Make sure you are protected. Everything in writing from here on in. Evidence and proper communication about this. Once they start being difficult like this then you need to really start protecting yourself and making sure you go through the proper channels and have all your evidence of when you said what, to who, your medical notes, your evidence of following the proper processes to request working from home etc.

I appreciate i have Equality Act protections but would still prefer a collaberative approach with work rather than stressing legal protectionsand bringing the union in.

Put what in writing? That if people feel well enough to go into the office as agreed then they should?

This. Your manager sounds like a clueless nob and a horrible person!

Op, the problem with bowel conditions is that anxiety makes it all so much worse, physically. So this will be feeding in and is part of the reason why you must get your adjustments.

how does this sound as a plan, assuming your are not at work today and theoretically return tomorrow:

1. if you are unwell, do not go in. I suspect that due to anxiety this will be the case so if it makes you feel better, physically, I would consider making that decision now so you and your gut can calm down and rest.
2. follow procedure for notifying of absence but make it clear that you are mid-episode (use whatever terminology is used in the OH report) and not able to travel due to current incontinence but are able to work from home so you will log in at the appropriate time.
3. send an email to manager, cc HR, saying you really need those adjustments for these episodes. You can say the anxiety around it is exacerbating the condition. You can say you think you meet the legal test for disability and believe that working from home during a recurrent episode is a reasonable adjustment. I can help you write it so it sounds ‘nice’ even though you shouldn’t have to.

what do you think? as a new manager you are doing her a favour educating her on law that she should have been trained in before taking on the role. Sounds like she has been set up to fail too. Although how any reasonable human can suggest someone gets on a commuter train with diarrhoea is beyond me so maybe I’ll take that back.

Me too. That would wash me out.

She was very rude. It is not a bug, adults without young children generally don’t get bugs. I haven’t in years.
If you are able to do your job from home then it should be a no problem.

think the manager is being pressurised on their own attendencre. Has some physical bits and mh or nd which they self mannaged by travelling on qnon rush hour trains. However, does not want to go to OH so seniors rightfully questioning why not meeting the expectation which gets pushed down.

I get that, we can write it in a way which is framed around your underlying legal protections without necessarily sounding litigious.

although not being direct is why employers get away with stuff like this. Makes me v angry as I know how hard it is when it’s YOU in the situation. And especially with continence issues, which I am
all too familiar with, and can be embarrassing to raise and discuss.

I'd reply, "In that case I must absent myself from work while I fully recover. Hope I'll feel better in a week's time. Here is my doctors note/surgery report."

I think for minor surgery with a GA I'd always take a week off to recover anyway. Major surgery you'd want six weeks at least.

Your manager is unreasonable. Additionally you are still doing your job - it’s not as if you’re off sick which would still not necessarily be unreasonable under the circumstances but would have real consequences for her, you, and the team if you were. This is one of the great things about WFH - it’s kept many people in work when they might have called in sick or had to leave altogether.
See your doctor for advice and support, get medical back-up and if you’re in a union get advice. Consider contacting ACAS too. Document this issue as well. Get a paper trail going. Your manager sounds like the sort who would put your job in jeopardy over a misplaced paper clip.
YA(Definitely!)NBU, OP! And what an awful time you are having visiting the toilet 14 times in a day, I hope your health improves soon for you 💐