To disagree with my mannager about if diarrhea is reason to WfH

[HonestPenguin]

How bad would diarrhoea need to be for you to work from home?

I have had bowel surgery, and from time to time I get what I would consider to be severe diarrhoea. As an example, over the last 24 hours I have been to the toilet 14 times. It’s all very watery, and I feel some nausea and just vaguely unwell.

When talking to my manager, I explained that from time to time I may need to work from home more than expected, as a result of the bowel surgery and the severe diarrhoea I sometimes experience. Her response was to say that we all get stomach bugs and that I need to meet the expectation.

Are you in a union? If not, please join one. This sounds like disability discrimination to me. Could you try and speak to ACAS to ask their advice about your situation? You are just as productive when working from home so I really don't understand why your manager is being so difficult. The alternative is that you phone in sick every time you have a flare up.

I'm with you OP, if you can dial in to the meetings what is the need for you to be in the office? If you are not well, surely you working from home is a better option than being off sick?

If she expects people in the office with stomach bugs I'd be looking for a new job. There's going to be all sorts if bugs spreading around the place. The lack of sensitivity in to your condition would have me looking elsewhere too.

As you have a reasonable adjustment your manager can't just go changing it because she feels like it. Go back to HR and say your manager is pressurising you over your reasonable adjustment, and please can they have a word. (Not quite those words.)
It doesn't sound as though your manager is suggesting it's no longer reasonable (which would need OH input), just that she doesn't like it. Which is her problem; don't let her make it yours.

Nope if you told me that I'd send you off to OH so we could get a medical opinion on how to proceed, what kind of adjustments would be required, how to support you etc.

Not just because I'd be worried about you as a human being, but because otherwise it could create a hell of a HR/legal headache down the line if reasonable adjustments hadn't been made for what could be classed as a disability.

If you hadn't had surgery and had D/V I wouldn't want you in for 48 hours! I wouldn't want you passing it around and us all getting it.

Really? I don’t know about your office but in mine I have a 4 minute walk to the toilets through shared corridors (and I think that’s close) which are, of course, a shared block of 6 or so cubicles. Compared to at home when I can be from my desk to my toilet in around 20 seconds and in the privacy of my own home.

Plus no commute, and hugely lessens the anxiety that one might not get to the toilet in time/shit oneself at one’s desk in front of the whole office?

I’ve never thankfully been in this situation myself but you can bet your ass (pun intended) that I would be working from home, and the same goes for any of my team.

If your bowel condition meets the condition of being a disability under the Equality Act (2010) this could be. Failure to Make Reasonable Adjustments.

If any of my team had diarrhoea and asked to work from home I would say yes. If it was a situation like yours, I'd put a reasonable adjustment in place to ensure you were able to wfh on those days.

Your boss is an idiot.

HR here.
Id put in a formal request for reasonable adjustments and occ health review as it sounds like an ongoing issue linked to surgery which should be protected under the quality act.
I’d also ask HR to clarify if the company policy is for employees with an active stomach bug to come and work at the office.

Bowel conditions are specifically mentioned in the Equality Act 2010, as maybe needing Reasonable Adjustments. OP needs to request an Occupational Health referral with an agreed report going to the manager and HR, who should then set up a meeting to discuss RAs and ways in which the employee can be supported to work as much as possible.
The reactions of other members of staff are not the concern of OP, or any other disabled person. HR and the manager need to ensure that the ethos of the company/workplace is truly inclusive.

You clearly can’t go to the office on those days but I would discuss it with HR and have them speak to your manager.

the key here might be setting out how you will make it work as far as possible within policy. So if you do some unexpected wfh days due to this will you come in on other days your weren’t planning to instead for example (shouldn’t need to be a 1 to 1 swap) but would try and show that you are trying to be willing and swap some days

YANBU, your manager's being ridiculous. You've had surgery, if you need accommodations you need them and that's that. I've no idea how she expects you to travel to work while going through something like this.

One off episode I'd be in if I needed to be. Not in your case and wouldnt expect anyone in my team to be either.

From what youve said it does sound like theres pressure from above. And it is hard for those msnagers. Especially as if there has flexibility with WFH, there are always piss takers who will WFH for the slightest issue, so more companies are getting tougher thanks to those people ruining it for others. And its the middle management that are the unfortunate messengers.

Would you feel comfortable going to HR to ask why the OH advice cant now be implemented?

That has already happened. Hence going now to a grievance.

Her opinion is irrelevant. If needed, speak to HR and ask for an occupational health assessor. That way an informed independent assessor will make the recommendation. Your manager sounds horrendous

The approach from your manager seems even worse if you are expected to attend a team meeting in person and others are excused from time to time.

Other than your bowel issues (which sound awful btw), is there any other reason that you would rather WFH on Wednesday’s?

If you need quick access to the toilet and may have accidents, it makes 100% sense to WFH. I wouldn't hesitate to agree to this for an employee who is otherwise trustworthy and conscientious.

in addition to my previous:

1. let her know the alternative is you’re sick those days so she can choose from you wfh and still getting the job done or the work not getting done till you’re back
2. consider speaking to a senior manager / director within the business (after HR / Occ Health). I’m in such a position within my business and id flip if I learnt one of my managers were treating staff as you’re being treated. It’s hard enough to find good folk so they shouldn’t be unnecessarily causing attrition issues over something as simple as employee had health issues and need to WFH the odd day

I’d be tempted to say that you got part way to the office and had to return home due to an incident. Who are these other colleagues that are permitted to dial into meetings when you aren’t?

My manager is coming under a huge amount of pressure from our CEO about the team’s office attendance (to the extent that it seems to be a metric considered as part of their year end performance review which is batshit). Is something like that going on? For what it’s worth, I have IBS and there are times that I need to work from home. I’m perfectly capable of working at the same time, I just need to be close to a private toilet. I also manage someone with a chronic bowel condition and I always tell her to stay at home when it flares up, it’s miserable to be commuting and stuck in the office when you’re constantly worried about whether you’re going to have an accident, not least the associated pain/cramps.

I’d definitely go back to HR and probably mutter something about discrimination and the Equalities Act.

He expects people to work with d&v bugs? Not from the fucking office I hope?! That's vile. There's not enough toilets and it would spread the germs round everyone. It's a literal biohazard for multiple people to have d&v with limited bathroom and cleanup access.

Plus what you're describing isn't a sickness bug. It's a symptom of your health condition that caused you to require bowel surgery. Presumably that could be classed as a disability if it impacts your daily life?

You are likely to be categorised disabled in employment law terms if you have a recurring condition which has a severe impact on your ability to do day to day things - which explosives diarrhoea certainly would.

so they need to make reasonable adjustments. Unless the role is impossible to do from home then it seems like that the odd WFH day when you’re shitting through the eye of needle is a reasonable adjustment. FFS what’s wrong with people?

are you in a union? If not then do a little google on disability discrimination and reasonable adjustments. You’ll need to tell them that because fo the surgery and its effects you now consider yourself disabled because you meet the legal test (different from a medical test).

I have IBD so I get it. There are days where I can’t commute to work because I have little warning. I am fine to work I just need rapid access to a loo.

I would go down the reasonable adjustment/ disability discrimination route given they have medical and occupational therapy evidence supporting your request.

You mention this is someone new to management - I think this is clearly just inexperience and misunderstanding. I'd just write an email and Copy in HR to open the dialogue and ask for clarification. I imagine this will be sorted quickly and easily. HR won't want to go against OH advice. Unless there's other things going on, this wouldn't be something I'd leave over but does need ironing out.
Also I don't think you need to justify your position and reasons on here or at work - seems perfectly perfectly reasonable to me.