To disagree with my mannager about if diarrhea is reason to WfH

[HonestPenguin]

How bad would diarrhoea need to be for you to work from home?

I have had bowel surgery, and from time to time I get what I would consider to be severe diarrhoea. As an example, over the last 24 hours I have been to the toilet 14 times. It’s all very watery, and I feel some nausea and just vaguely unwell.

When talking to my manager, I explained that from time to time I may need to work from home more than expected, as a result of the bowel surgery and the severe diarrhoea I sometimes experience. Her response was to say that we all get stomach bugs and that I need to meet the expectation.

You have had medical attention, this is not undiagnosed. Agree with those suggesting your formally ask for a reasonable adjustment. Reading between the lines, there are probably some days where it does not affect you, so you are not saying you should never go to the office.

Looking for a job or internal move should be a second action.

Sounds a bit stupid of your manager - post bowel surgery it's obviously a fair and reasonable adjustment. I think I would be following up with an email. I'd be surprised if you got the same response in writing! Anyway, I'd continue to wfh when you're having issues and let them get the ball rolling if they want to take further action. Then a quick chat with occupational health and you should be good to go. X

And huge swathes of the population being economically inactive because they are not permitted to work with adjustments.

Just what the economy needs... what a fabulous idea!

ETA if someone if working from home but not actually working and delivering output then that is a performance issue. Which is (presumably) dealt with via performance reviews.

If it is just short gut/high output, rather than a diarrhoea virus, then it's perfectly reasonable to say 'I can do the work but can't be away from the toilet long enough to get to work' and 'For my dignity and comfort, I need to be near a toilet in my home'.

If it's a viral illness, sickness absence is appropriate. If the high output results in fatigue/dizziness/dehydration, it would also be reasonable to use sickness absence.

I do have an Occupational Health assessment that confirms I need flexibility around office attendance because of a pre-existing condition.

Work are now saying that this flexibility can’t applyas expectimg people to be in more. Wednesdays are a particular challenge because that’s when we have our team meeting. What I’m struggling with is that other people are able to join the meeting online, so I don’t really understand why I couldn’t do the same when my condition means I’m not well enough to be in the office.

I’m also uncomfortable with the attitude seeming to be “take an Imodium and come in”. The last time I had a stomach bug I ended up in hospital with dehydration, and it took me a couple of months to properly feel better again. So if that’s genuinely the expectation, it actually makes me feel much more anxious about going into the office at all.

Even before I had this condition, if I had vomiting or diarrhoea I would wait until I’d been clear for at least 24 hours before going back into work, especially as it could be infectious.

I’m not saying I should never have to go in on a Wednesday. I just don’t understand why the flexibility recommended by OH suddenly can’t apply on that particular day, especially when joining the meeting remotely is already an option for other people.

I think this depends on your job and if it can be done from home.

It may be that you need to be off sick.

A reasonable adjustments could be working from home for a flare up. Or it could be more absence and flexibility of the absence triggers.

They'll land thrmselves in legal hot water soon enough.

Just quiet quit and leave.

yes it is someone new to mannagement. I can’t work out if they are under pressure from seniors as are otherwise quitte nice.

Trying to see gastro as the frequency of episodes has really increased. Seem to be on my second this momth and dont think help myself about stressing about going in.

Your manager is an idiot. If people have actual stomach bugs they need to keep that shit at home, pardon the pun. As for your issue, I would have thought you’d be more productive at home as if you’re suffering that badly during a flare up you’ll use energy just getting to work.

Also unless you tell people at work about your medical condition (which you don’t and shouldn’t have to!) they’re all going to think it’s a tummy bug and be understandably pissed off you’ve come into work and might give it to them.

Yes. I have a friend with cancer who has just been sacked for it. Under guise of another, made-up excuse of course.

You inform your manager that you will continue to utilise the reasonable adjustment for your disability as agreed with OH and if they have a problem with that, they should speak to HR/OH/legal. What an idiot.

So surely what needs to be in place is a system whereby you can monitor accurately the work output of staff when they WFH?
Another way to look at it is, would someone who WFH due to medical reasons be more productive than not having that person work at all due to illness?

Get a fit note from to your GP and involve HR. This should be an ongoing adjustment for you.

Well I would hope that they have evidence of this and have union support?

Do you have a union? They’d love this

You wouldn't go in the office, with diarrhoea. Most people would call in sick. Therefore in my opinion, if you're in the toilet due to diarrhoea, when you're supposed to be WFH, you shouldn't be working. You can't work effectively, if you're spending a lot of time in the toilet.

Your Manager's response is completely bizarre. Surely she wouldn't expect someone to come into the office, with a stomach bug?!

You need a proper meeting with your Manager and possibly HR, if you are likely to have ongoing medical issues, due to bowel surgery.

I am better from home when this happens because the commute is exusting. Its 75 minutes door to door. There is a toilet on the train but tube more difficult. I also appreciate the extra time at home because i tend to go a few times in the night and a bit of extra time means i can sleep a.bit longer or have a nap at lunch.

the toilet is nearer to my desk at home and its easier to mannage as have it set upb with wwasher and cream. If i do have an accident can easily duispose of a pad and have a shower and change clothes.

At home its easier to stay ontop of fluids and food as when like this want simple things like rice, chicken, soup banana jelly.

I’ve read your updates - definitely involve hr as your manager clearly doesn’t know what they are doing

Frankly it sounds like you would (and perhaps should) be well within your rights to go on long term sick leave. The fact that you are willing to continue to work from home is going above and beyond, and she should be bloody grateful rather than making things difficult.

Ask for a reasonable adjustment, if she refuses ask for an occupational assessment and tell them that. A reduction as you recover from surgery is reasonable

I dont think i am generally spending huge ammounts of time on the toilet, its generraly quite efficient. I have been able to join meetings

Are you actually well enough to be working at all?

I'd probably go on your commute one day, and then turn around and go home halfway through the tube journey and tell them that you had an accident on the tube and had to return home for fresh clothes and then put a grievance in about your reasonable adjustments about flexibility not being adhered to.

I'd also point out that this is not a 'stomach bug', that the last time you ended up in hospital on a drip due to dehydration and it is a serious issue that needs taking seriously not fobbed off as if it is just 'take an immodium' solution.

Are you able to attend the whole meeting and wait to go until it finishes though, rather than leaving meetings to go to the toilet? I think if it’s not affecting your work and doesn’t interrupt meetings or calls then it should be a reasonable adjustment for you to work at home, but if it does affect it then you should be off sick.

Any. No one with d&v should be going into the office. It’s probably not infectious in your case, but you don’t actually know that for sure.

For what it’s worth, I have a similar bowel condition and trust me, my employer does not want me shitting myself in the office.

How unwell I am would depend on whether I needed to take the day off sick (generally that has rarely ever happened).