To think academics are seriously entitled??

[Bananavibez]

Met a bunch of lecturers at party last night. Dont think ive ever met such an entitled bunch. Nice pay for minimal hours but complaining about how they have to answer loads of emails (??). One of them in their 60s actually admitted they would't meet the qualification requirements for their role if they were applying for it today.
So much bitching and whining and all i could think was "so how come you've stuck with this job for decades then, you could have gone out to work in industry if its so awful"...

I’d like you to say that to the face of someone in the military. Don’t confuse job security and pension for somehow being devoid of hard work and realism, you deal with your husband being deployed to a war zone for 6 months when your baby is 3 weeks old, 6 weeks after moving to a completely new area not knowing anyone and tell me we don’t know working in the real world, we’d tell you where to go.

Totally agree. I’d love to know where these cushy public sector jobs are. NHS? Police? Teaching? Ambulance service? Don’t think so.

Ive had two private sector jobs for eight years combined, over a decade in the nhs and now lecturing

My most cushy jobs were the private sector ones by far.

I do both. The challenges are different. Secondary school has the edge with intensity. Universities have unbelievable bureaucracy! Listening to people moaning is always boring though.

I manage an academic journal and it relies on reviews done (for free) by fellow academics. So many of them respond to us on the weekend. Last night (Saturday) I had a notification at 7.30pm of someone agreeing to review. I think that tells you many are struggling with the workload.

I had a boyfriend who was an academic and he used to joke that academia was 50% teaching, 50% research and 50% administration.

I work with both types of academics and universities need both. But people who come into academia from industry tend to end up in teaching-focused roles - as your reference to the benefit of great holidays suggests. They don't experience one of the biggest stressors which is publication and grant income pressures where you are given precious little time to do these things but still expected to deliver a book, other "world leading" publications and impact for REF and secure awards from massively diminishing funding streams. The "generous" holidays are taken up with this work - none of the academics I'm line managing have used up up their 6 weeks annual leave as we are under serious pressure to get publications out for the REF deadline.

I wouldn’t describe myself as a facilitator in practice but do believe my role is to facilitate learning using whatever pedagogical theories and techniques are appropriate for the topic.

We are not teachers in the same way school teachers are. We are, however, educators with much more autonomy than school teachers. And no, no nerve hit. Just irritation at your sheer ignorance.

I have been reflecting on the differences between teaching in secondary and teaching in HE. Not because I want to do a whinge about how hard it is but because it is interesting.

Lots of time in HE, you are more independent even of colleagues. I used to deliver 2 core modules to second years on my own entirely from design to marking and preparation for external examiners. I don't think this is best practice but it is done. The bonding I did as a teacher where the sense of a joint enterprise meant we were all in the pub at 3.30pm on a Friday isn't there in the same way. I still have dear friends who are in teaching.

However, I have research collaborations that span my time at several institutions and I feel immensely privileged to know that these are people I trust and will work with until I die

I think comparing HE teaching with 'teaching' is weird anyway - it is closer to FE teaching than FE teaching is to EYFS teaching obviously.

I think everyone feels a bit rubbish about the way things are going at the moment. I don't know anyone happy or secure in their job across any sector. Saying some things are frustrating in one job isn't saying things aren't frustrating in other jobs.

To be fair, I’d like time to “pursue my own artistic practice” but I have to work to pay my mortgage / feed, clothe, house kids.. 🤷‍♀️

OP can you study and become an academic? It does sound like a nice job to me.

But the research is part of the job requirement 🤷🏻‍♀️. People aren’t doing it for shits and giggles. It brings in money for the university and also furthers the reputation of the university which when it comes to attracting students who pay fees is important.

I haven’t published anything in ten years. I don’t have time. Every year at my annual review I have to come up with some reason why I’ve done no research (staffing issues) and talk about some idea for something which I’d like to do next year. Both me and my manager know it’s not happening but we tick the box and keep the pretence up and everyone is happy.

unlike most courses my students are at uni till the end of July. Some of them throughout august. So I have no let up. Maybe six weeks with no teaching but I spend those weeks sorting out exam boards, admissions stuff, getting blackboard sites ready, end of year reports, ee liaison, updating teaching materials and trying to take leave.

Research is part of the job. It’s part of an academic’s job description (unless you’re on a teaching only contract). We have targets and KPIs related to research.
We’re not doing it just for fun, it’s how we’re also paying our mortgage and feeding our kids.

And again with the rudeness, no nerve hit but being rude. Perhaps this is why posters perceive academics as entitled as they are happy to accuse people of being ignorant when the point I make about academics not being teachers is one you actually agree with!

I have lots of anecdotal evidence of HE teachers not turning up to 1:1 meetings, ignoring important emails for months, rather shockingly changing marks after complaints, failing to support students in any meaningful way, lack of mark schemes the list goes on. However, other lectures were dedicated hardworking and supportive. I’ve held back as parental involvement in HE isn’t useful but there have been several incidents that teachers would have been sacked for.
There needs to be an acknowledgment that standards in HE can be like the Wild West, some brilliance but far to often shocking gaps.

All jobs have cushy aspects and not so cushy ones 🤷‍♀️

I don't know why we need everyone to be miserable all the time to feel like we have 'won'. When I have done some marking this morning, I will work on a chapter I am writing that I am really enjoying. It's Sunday. I like writing this chapter but realistically if I don't dedicate Sundays to it, I won't have time and won't hit the deadline.

Writing the chapter is good for my institution but also good for me personally, raising my profile and having a space to articulate an important new idea. So it's complicated. I will also work on a project proposal that I hope will help us understand more about the way we are interacting with AI tools and open up potentially an intervention to improve our cognitive functioning with AI. It will benefit me because I am curious and interested but hopefully be of wider contribution to society more generally.

We all have a part to play in the great patchwork of community. I hate the race to the bottom.

Any rudeness on my part is simply in response to yours.

It benefits students to be taught by people who are active/practising in the fields they teach in.
And professional artistic practice feeds into research.

You've misunderstood. This is part of our job, not a hobby. If I am teaching on a creative writing degree, no student wants to be workshopped on a fiction module by a teacher who doesn't write and publish novels.

And as an academic I’d agree with you. My daughter had a terrible time in her first degree, the whole cohort did. They forgot to teach an entire module and didn’t realise until near the end of the semester and even then only because Dd asked the programme leader why they’d been given no information about an upcoming assessment. I can’t get my head around forgetting to teach an entire module.

Dd said emails weren’t answered, no support, etc and in the end made such a comprehensive complaint on behalf of her cohort they all received significant financial compensation from the university.

Its bizarre as from my pov I feel there is so much quality assurance, checking, regulations, etc and then I hear about something like that happening.

Yeah... but it's not just about the quality of the teaching is it? Even now an RG degree tends to open more doors than one from a post-92 institution unfortunately ...

Lecturers have nothing to do with the education of pupils from 5 to 18, lecturers are a load of people who could not make it in classrooms they are an entitled who think teaching is beneath them

What is your basis for this rather sweeping statement, @bathdragon ?

The hours are not minimal. The pay is no longer that great. And the sector has been really tough to work in for the last few years. None of my colleagues are entitled. What people are entitled to do is have a moan with their colleagues on a Friday night. HTH.

There are lecturers for 16-18 in FE colleges but that's quite a different job to university lecturers in many ways.

That aside, your post is unfair. My colleges who run the teacher training degrees and Early Years and other education degrees certainly don't look down on teachers...!

I have huge respect for my son's teachers, I just don't do the same job and don't want to.

Erm I train teachers and other education professionals so I disagree with this sweeping generalisation!

I imagine they vary, like people in most professions.

My sister-in-law has many good qualities but she can be a little bit "woe is me" about her (to my mind excellent) pay and working conditions.

On the other hand, the guy I am dating seems very sensible of how fortunate he is to have a job in academia. And he isn't from a privileged background at all - I really admire him for being from rh background he is from and achieving what he has achieved.

I've known some academics who were total cunts, others who were lovely and realised they were lucky to have the jobs they have.

Everyone is different.

I don't think that's remotely true. It may be true of some - but how can you generalise like this? I'm a teacher and most of the academics I know/have known have shown huge respect for the importance of my role.