To think academics are seriously entitled??

[Bananavibez]

Met a bunch of lecturers at party last night. Dont think ive ever met such an entitled bunch. Nice pay for minimal hours but complaining about how they have to answer loads of emails (??). One of them in their 60s actually admitted they would't meet the qualification requirements for their role if they were applying for it today.
So much bitching and whining and all i could think was "so how come you've stuck with this job for decades then, you could have gone out to work in industry if its so awful"...

I had a sad case where this poor first year had so so many problems, university was just the wrong place for them. This student hoovered up a huge amount of my time and my colleague's too. When we eventually had to have a family crisis meeting with the parents and the student, the parent had the lightbulb moment that it was not just a matter of them being scared to come in and they were ok when they were in class.

I had to absolutely spell it out that they were not ok. They cried in every single class. They were not in any state to learn. It was heartbreaking seeing the state of that poor young person and the parents who of course wanted the best for them but were probably putting all their hopes on their child becoming independent through university.

This is one of the many many cases which take huge amounts of time and I get no recognition or workload allocation for.

Wages wise ....I'm a senior lecturer... We don't get up to £60k at the top of the band.

Our uni also put loads of us on teaching contracts so we don't get to do research (although loads do in their own time which puts more pressure on those of us who cannot work all evening and weekend).

So yeah, I think getting a bunch of us together and there will be whinging. Some of it, a lot of it, is justified. It is a highly stressful job that takes and takes and expects an awful lot from your own time.

But yes, there are entitled colleagues not doing extra roles and dialling it in with huge egos and no care for students.

ETA... It's a workplace and a mixed bag of course.

And it's often a pretty toxic environment to work in.

It depends. I teach on a professional course. There are things they need to know in order to qualify (not just graduate) so I am required to teach them the knowledge and skills that will enable them to succeed in their chosen career. Some of the more self directed sessions, I facilitate their learning. I also teach on a degree level apprenticeship which is OFSTED inspected and overseen by EFSA and the OFS. It's not possible to simply go in and teach any old shit in any old way. At the other end of the spectrum the research students I supervise receive no teaching at all apart from a few workshops.
Most academic contracts now expect you to achieve your PGCert HE within two years as well as Fellowship of the HEA, teaching is observed, and you also have to engage in peer observation. With students as customers there is so much more emphasis on the quality of teaching because it's reflected in the NSS and universities are scared of complaints to the OFS.

I’m not sure what your lols are for. I’m perfectly capable of going in and teaching a topic but I prefer to facilitate using an active learning approach. Facilitating learning is much more beneficial to the students than simply teaching them.

We don’t need to decide if we are teachers or not and we certainly don’t need agreement on the terminology we use to describe what we do. Some will say they are teaching, others lecturing.

I’m not sure why you are comparing school teachers with lecturers. They are different roles. I don’t have the skill set to perform surgery either. That said, I have held workshops for school kids and managed them well but have zero interest in becoming a teacher.

Re your anecdotal evidence, I can provide you with plenty of anecdotal evidence about crap school teachers too. There are so many confounding variables that PISA scores can’t be taken to tell you much about the quality of teaching.

@Greenleavesandsunshine I think discourse and disagreement is expected among academics... So no, they won't all agree on whether they are teachers or facilitators. However, being a facilitator is recognising that higher education demands more independent learning from students and rightly so.

It is our job to support students to become independent learners and researchers and critical thinkers.

Of course there are some lecturers that are more engaging than others but universities are obsessed with data. Student surveys will indicate if there is a perceived issue. A module getting low scores will be monitored and that lecturer will have a discussion with management.

I can well imagine being an academic is a toxic job. The pay for a post doc researcher - with 7 years at least of study - is truly pitiful. And then there are lots of short term contacts just when you might be trying to plan a family.

I was a teacher (secondary) and now I am an academic (social sciences). It's a different job.

From an education perspective, we are responsible for setting the exams and designing the full curriculum which is not quite the same for teachers. Teaching in a school is intense but so is delivering 2 hours of teaching to a lecture theatre of 200+ students. It requires different skills. With masters projects we also run 54 week academic years so the summer break is not the same. I also do research and service of course.

However, I don't think it is a competition and not sure why we have to always race to the bottom in these things.

There is also a massive difference across universities which is rarely properly discussed. I just made the move from a post 92 to a RG and it is just worlds apart but most of my new colleagues know how privileged they are.

I’m a professor at a RG uni and earn significantly less than £82,000.

UCL payscales (publicly available) up to Associate Prof: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/human-resources/sites/human_resources/files/ucl_non_clinical_pay_scale_2025-2026_august_26_update_0.pdf

How much do you think lecturers get paid?
As for minimal hours… every an academic in my department works over and above their contracted hours and most of that time is spent supporting students. In fact, I’ve spent a few hours supporting a student I’ve never even met today just because they happened to email me.

I imagine the complaints about emails is because they have increased exponentially over the last few years! That’s a pretty normal work complaint!

The qualification comment is interesting. My university insists on all academic staff having a PhD and they pay for them. It was a very unpopular policy when it was introduced as many of the older academics didn’t want to do them. However, it’s now something that attracts people to the university.
Research is a significant part of an academics role and the PhD is a part of that journey.

I am an academic and it depends largely on what university they're part of 🤷‍♀️ red brick uni academics are often insufferable and have their heads so far up their own arses I can't be bothered with them. Academics in ex-polytechnics (the type of setting I work in) are my favourite as they're more likely to be normal people and the ethos of the university is less "We are the most important people ever and you should be privileged we even look at you" and more actually wanting to help your students, you know... learn

This with bells on!!
Walk in someone’s shoes before making a judgement…. or moccasins as apparently it’s a Native American saying.

As an academic working in an education faculty which teaches people how to teach I vehemently disagree with your suggestion that lecturers don’t teach. Of course we bloody teach!!

Also, seriously, I know that it is different to dragging teenagers through Shakespeare but I find it amusing the idea that all our students turn up eager to learn. I love my students dearly but teaching any group (including even workshops etc., for academics) can be a slog if they are in longish lectures and you want to get it right.

I'm not talking Battle of the Somme style struggle and I adore my job and wouldn't change it but we do have to work to engage many students.

The breadth of tasks we need to cover is so broad. For instance at the moment I am expected to teach several existing modules, mark the assignments, create a new module, market and recruit for our programmes (with no training or experience in this), supervise PhDs, take on several management roles, apply for research funding, carry out existing funded research, produce papers, create and prove impacts from my research for the Research Excellence Framework and provide student pastoral support. That is in addition to various reports, evaluations and providing endless student references. In. The past academics could risk coasting a bit on research but not now - nearly all universities are facing redundancies and you have to show yourself as an all-rounder. And remember there are no existing teaching resources in our area - we need to develop our own.

Yes. Elective modules are so much easier to teach as they have at least chosen it.

It has got better over time I think. Some of my lecturers did very little. I had one very bright lecturer who was known for sleeping most of the day on campus. He had a bed in his room and when we went in for tutorials you could see he had just got up.

And differentiation is also more complicated when with the current race to the bottom in clearing you can have students coming in with wildly different qualifications. So you have 250 (say) students on your module, 30% roughly with statements of additional support needs which you need to facilitate and adjust for typically with little support and grades from, say, A* to C in core subject areas.

Again, it is different to teaching in a classroom but it is still teaching and still requires skill and expertise to do it well.

I have to admit my experience of academics in a professional context was not a positive one. I’m going to have to be annoying and not talk specifically because I’d hate to be identified (and they weren’t bad people so I wouldn’t want to identify them either and it’s a niche area) but they were studying an area which very much fit their (and my!) liberal ideals, “isn’t this great” (something Labour delivered) but the reality was a very challenging long term environment for the working classes that had to experience the ramifications of this policy decision in the modern era, something these academics celebrated and publicly lauded, but personally (and purposely) lived in the opposite circumstances, the only kind of comparison I could give is celebrating the NHS or state education system, and then choosing to use private sector health or education. It was SO hypocritical (as they were so judgemental of people who challenged this policy) and yet….they didn’t choose that for themselves. As someone who was working with them but working class living the experience of what they were celebrating, I found them to be hugely ignorant.

Also, in the profession I am in, I had to do a masters and was taught by people who only studied the material theoretically, they had no practical
or operational experience of the work I now do, and my opinion of them has only reduced over the years. So sheltered and ignorant.

BUT I am talking to quite a narrow area of academics, I hugely respect many academics and all they bring to society. Mostly Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland 🤣🤣

And now you are bitching and whining about them.

@whoshouldItalkto yes, this is true. I revalidated my course a year or so ago. I wrote most modules myself, and all other documentation. Did I receive any workload for doing this? Nope! Huge amount of work.

Do a job you love and you ll never work a day in your life!
As a teacher i would go onto academia in a heartbeat if i were smart enough!

I find this thread quite heartening. I think it has been a tough (again not Battle of the Somme tough) time for academics over the past few months. I have been saddened by some of the public flak we have received when, if they are paying home fees, students' education is subsided by our unpaid overtime and we still often offer up additional national service (such as government advisory roles or obviously public facing research) alongside teaching.

It's nice that not everyone thinks we are ivory towered freeloaders :)

Oh, how I wish you were correct. You've obviously never taught a group of undergraduates whose constant refrain is "do I need to know this for the assessment/exam?"

This sounds so relatable, and it was partly while I left.

Yeah, in my experience this rings true

There seems to be confusion about the difference between teaching, lecturing and facilitating. The terms are being used interchangeably which again indicates a lack of clear understanding. Most secondary school teachers fully understand what teaching actually involves. Academics claim - in some cases - to be teachers and have no actual understanding of what it is. This thread and discussions therein being a case in point.