To think academics are seriously entitled??

[Bananavibez]

Met a bunch of lecturers at party last night. Dont think ive ever met such an entitled bunch. Nice pay for minimal hours but complaining about how they have to answer loads of emails (??). One of them in their 60s actually admitted they would't meet the qualification requirements for their role if they were applying for it today.
So much bitching and whining and all i could think was "so how come you've stuck with this job for decades then, you could have gone out to work in industry if its so awful"...

Lecturer pay is shit

I'm not a teachER
As an academic I am definitely teachING
I.e. imparting knowledge, skills, understanding to students

I'm shocked an academic would say they don't teach but perhaps this is a discipline specific thing

So yabu for that

Many on MN are obsessed with children getting into RG universities but don't appreciate that the quality and quantity of teaching is often better in post-92. I've been to and taught in both and know which I prefer.

And given your previous comment about students deserving a bit more than a bit of facilitation, you obviously have no understanding of pedagogy or modern instructional design. Creating an active, facilitated learning environment requires actual pedagogical skill. Claiming academics "don't know what we're doing" because we don't spoon-feed information simply exposes your own outdated view of education. Dismissing facilitation doesn't prove a lack of teaching ability—it just proves you don't know how people actually learn.

Tbf I get them complaining about emails. I’m a mature student and some of the things my peers tell me they email lecturers about baffles me. We have a WhatsApp group and it’s constant inane questions about information that is available on the portal if you just look for it. Generally I end up sending everyone links because despite being in my 30s apparently I’m the only one who knows how to google things like University Name + exam policy/exam dates/academic calendar or how to navigate the idiot proof module guides.

It winds me up and I’m not getting emails from a cohort of possibly 100+ students in each year about this crap.

I use the term teaching but I’m not teaching in the same way a secondary teacher is teaching. I aim to facilitate learning using a variety of approaches. I’m particularly partial to active learning approaches. They suit my discipline well.

Exactly. Most of the time, we’re trying to undo the damage of the secondary education system that students leave having been spoon-fed and taught to the test.

There are a lot of different jobs underneath the “academic” umbrella… how unreasonable you are being depends on which discipline you’re talking about (and which university). Many academics are overworked and underpaid. University infrastructures are now so governmentally underfunded, you get professors doing five administrators’ jobs on top of their own teaching and research requirements.
I wish we could even better appreciate what higher education means to us as a society: eg class mobility, critical thinking development. But sorry you were offended at a party :( One clutch of dickheads needn’t represent an entire profession, eh?

I can state that senior academics are in general the most needy and entitled people I've ever worked for. I work at a major university in a senior technical position and certain professors are the worst people I've ever worked with, incredibly rude, entitled and disrespectful. I actually refuse to work with a number of them unless they go to my director and he forces me.

Well this is why I wondered if it's discipline specific. I use active learning in my methods training but I still consider that teaching, it's not secondary school type teaching but that is not the only kind of teaching there is. And then I have more traditional teaching sessions too.

I think we really sell ourselves short as a profession if we just say we're facilitators.

I was an academic in the 1990s before all this dreary wokeness and gender nonsense came creeping in.

Im now retired and do private postdoc tutoring. Several posters upthread have mentioned the demanding and entitled attitude of students - mostly the home based variety. For that very reason I only take international students who need help with their thesis. They are highly motivated, hard working and respectful in a way that many home based students could learn from. Too many uk students have an "I pay your wages I want some service" attitude.

Up to 5? I work in a 10-period school (10x45-minute lessons a day) and I definitely have colleagues whose TTs have 8 lessons a day on some of their days (and no, they are not teaching under 5 periods on the other days).

Saying that, I have never been called the sort of names you have suggested in your post, and I have been a teacher for 18 years, in 3 different countries (private and state schools). Thankfully.

I’m an academic. Starting pay for a lecturer is about 36/37k I believe so not amazing pay. I could definitely earn more back in industry.

The workload has massively increased recently as most departments have lost at least 25% of staff. When you also factor in the fact that professional services have also been decimated and we have to pick up a lot of what would previously have been done by them then I’m not surprised people are moaning about workload, etc.

The too many emails is an interesting one. I get probably between 50-100 emails a day. Bearing in mind I may well be teaching 9-4. Admittedly not every day but last week was 4 days of teaching and next week is 3 days of teaching. I only work 4 days a week currently and I’m also programme lead so am meant to have a lot of time for course admin. Then I don’t have a lot of time to deal with emails. Which is why most days I am sat at my desk at 7am and also answering emails in the evening. But it’s not a great workload.

Students have definitely become more “needy” and that seems to get worse every year. I am workload planned an hour per student per year to deal with them. And that’s only for the students who I’m personal tutor for. That hour a year includes 3 personal tutorials, any academic support and answering emails from them. Some students I never hear from, some I hear from a few times a week. Quite a bit of the time the email will be asking a question about something which they have been told or have access to that information. However is easier for them to email be rather than actually read the program handbook or assessment handbook! 😁. When I was a student my lecturers didn’t have email addresses or phone numbers so you either figured it out yourself or waited till you saw them in a lecture.

However overall I love my job and am passionate about it. I love supporting the students and seeing them develop over three years. I cry on their last day (we always have an end of course celebration), I cry at graduations. I consider myself lucky and privileged to have this job. I think I’m good at my job, my students seem to appreciate me. I try and be approachable and kind even when I’m drowning under my workload. It’s never boring, no two days are the same. But might I moan at a party about my workload? Quite possibly! 😁👍

I know someone who was a lecturer at a uni after working in the real world first, and they say it was very easy job.

In what way is a university magically not part of the ‘real world’?

HE is in chaos with mass redundancies and course closes each year across the sector. They can complain. Just like anyone else can complain about their job in difficult times.

Anyone who has only worked in the public sector has no idea what life is like working in the real world. Nothing magic about it.

😂😂😂 nice pay for minimal hours!!! What planet are you on??!! Lecturing is very often less than minimum wage by the time you add in all the teaching prep, marking and, yes, you guessed it, emails. And as for the idea that they should have stopped complaining and changed careers - it's that easy is it? Yes some people manage it but most people have to do the job that they actually know and have. The idea that you should never complain about your job since you can just switch career is ridiculous.

And your opinion is based on something someone once said to you about working as a lecturer after working in industry. Right.

Academic here...

Going to disagree with some of the other academics who are objecting to the OP.

In my experience, while there are stressful and difficult parts of life in a university, there is a tendency for people to have a lower threshold for their complaints.

It is a common observation that I heard about before I worked in universities, and have seen since that there is a split in academia between those who have worked professionally outside of universities, and those who have been in education for their whole lives.

Generally those with professional careers prior to academia tend to find university life to be demanding in some ways, but actually fairly soft and easy in many others. The hours are great, the holidays tend to be great, the work-life balance, and work environments are generally good (obviously this depends on the university ands its management). Class loads, marking, student supervision are all easy compared to working in a school or in the private sector etc.

Yet those who have spent their entire lives in education.. School, Uni, Undergrad, Postgrad, PhD, Post-doctoral position, Lecturer, and onwards etc. They tend to have a slightly different perspective and get highly critical of the state of universities, largely because they are very (and correctly) aware of right/wrong/fairness/correct ways of doing things, but they have no comparison to how tough it can be outside of the university bubble.

I have no doubt that plenty on here will defend how tough the job is, and it can be very tough, but it isn't as bad as some, especially the "lifers" in academia would complain it is.

I’ve said academics aren’t teachers you agree with me despite other academics arguing that they do teach. You the make lots of claims about spoon feeding children, when teachers are working under a massively regulated, external exam system with detailed marking schemes and we don’t set our own exams, all of which make teaching way more complicated.

The level of snark in your response suggests I’ve hit a nerve.

You do know that universities aren’t public sector?

Couldn’t agree more with this. Teachers in schools who have always been in education also have a bubble. Not saying it’s not a hard job but the bubble doesn’t help.

As someone who stopped teaching at doctorate level precisely because it was evident not everyone there wanted to learn, or was committed to putting in the requisite effort at lectures, I'd disagree. It absolutely can be like herding cats, and I expect teaching undergrad is a long haul sometimes.

Edit: replied to the reply to the post, rather than the actual post claiming that at university level, students 'all want to be there' etc. Apologies.