I should always be welcome in DP's home, regardless of who's there - AIBU?

[SecretsAndLies77]

I will try to not make this too long, but also not drip feed. Please help me distinguish reasonable actions from my own emotions because, to put it simply, everything's at stake.

Been with DP for 4 years and, on the whole, it's a very loving relationship. He's good to me and my kids, fun to be around, reliable and helpful, contributes financially to my household. We don't live together but spend much (most) of the week at each other's homes (although more mine than his), as well as every weekend and holidays.

At the same time, it's been a turbulent relationship (I know that sounds odd after what I've just said, but it can be both good and turbulent, as it's about very defined areas of problems, i.e. one problem = his adult daughters). I have a good relationship with his youngest DD (early 20s) who lives with him, but his eldest (30) who lives away doesn't want to have anything to do with me. At times she's been really rude to me and various members of my family. Most recent example is a message she sent where she was incredibly rude and disrespectful (before blocking me, so I couldn't even respond - a coward's move, IMO). My DP did reprimand her, sort of, via text and heavily prompted by me, which I hate as I don't think it's my job to stand up for this relationship and my dignity, but his. I think left to his own devices he would just always avoid all conflict. He is very scared she will cut him out of his life.

I feel I've come to the end with being able to accept that he doesn't stand up for me of his own free will, and that when he sees her he doesn't feel a shred of annoyance, resentment or anger about the awful ways she's behaved. I understand we all love our children, and I understand he's scared of losing her. I'm not even saying that he should necessarily show her that he's upset about her bad behaviour, but simply that he should feel something for me, the way she's treated me (in other words, show ME - show some kind of outrage, empathy, solidarity). If someone mistreated my DP, even if it was my kids, I'd be pretty livid. I know people are different, and I know men and women can be very different in their emotional processing. But still. How can it be true that he loves me, but that he doesn't feel anything when someone repeatedly hurts me?

The other thing is that, when she comes to stay at his, although at all other times I'm (more than) welcome in his house, there's an expectation that I won't come while she's there. Now, I get that it's her former home, she still has a room there. But, at all other times, I have complete access to his house, not just that but he's even repeatedly hosted friends of mine for long weekends (because the house is big and has spare rooms and bathrooms), but when his daughter is there, the quiet understanding is that I'm not welcome. But, just as an example, we're spending Xmas at mine this year and he of course invited her too. I knew she would say no, but that's not the point. So, she's meant to be always welcome in my house, but I'm not only not welcome at family events, but also my own partner's house when she's there? It strikes me as very unfair and unreasonable.

I've been living with this for a while, and this morning I woke up and thought, I don't know if I love him any more. This has seriously eroded my feelings for him. It's a huge shame, as four years is a lot of time together and he's amazing in many ways and I love(d) him possibly more than any other man before him, including my ex husband. But this continued unfairness and indignity has eaten away at the core of our connection.

YABU - this is a reasonable compromise in a complicated family dynamic because parents will always put their children first, even when they're nearly 30, and most women would find a way to live with this, even if it hurts them

YANBU - this is a major breach of love and loyalty towards me on his side, and if he's not prepared to let her know that his home is always open to me, I should walk away even after 4 years together.

Can I just say (if you're read this far), if you're not divorced and in a relationship with a man who's got adult kids, you won't have any kind of realistic perspective on a situation of this kind. I'm looking for some thoughtful and considered responses based in first hand experience of these kinds of dynamics - thank you (and I'll disregard any responses that are rude or unkind, as often I see "pile ons" when it comes to these kinds of questions)

I suspect that because you don't live together permanently, @OP , the daughter sees you to an extent as 'just' another visitor. (Yes, I've seen and understand your explanation as to why you've kept separate homes and many people do the same.)

My husband I married some years after his divorce and it was his first wife who had an Affair Partner from work.

I suspected that his daughter merely tolerated me, but I could never quite put my finger on it. I think she mistakenly thought that I was the marriage wrecker - the kids were adults and living in another part of the country when my husband found out that his then wife had spent the night with a work colleague.

I also get the feeling that our age difference was a problem. Bizarrely, the daughter was the OW in her relationship [which I didn't realise at the time] and there was a similar age difference. However, I guess there's no logic to these things.

Unfortunately, the daughter's partner died unexpectedly. She had difficult dealings with her partner's ex-wife. I got a phone call from the daughter and she then said that she was only now realising how things must have been for me, dealing with her mother. As I said, I didn't realise at the time that she'd been the OW - I only realised the timeline much later.

As you say, you weren't the OW, but sometimes even adult children have a fantasy of their parents getting back together again or of having their dad to themselves without an 'outsider' getting in the way. There's not necessarily ill intent - maybe just human nature.

No partner would ever be ALWAYS welcome at my home.

The reason people don’t live with a partner is because they want their space and that should be respected.

There are times when I want it just me and my DC, are seeing my family or friends or just want time alone.

I would definitely not be ok with a partner (or anyone) just turning up, it’s rude.

This would not bother me at all.

However, the issue is going to be where you both see this relationship heading - are you planning to live apart forever or eventually one day move in together?

Unfortunately, your DP is a big ol' coward. You know it, she knows it.

I think she's behaving like a real spoilt madam, knowing he is spineless. She does not have to like or hang out with you but if she has been very rude to/about you with no good reason then of course your DP should have words. He's not cutting her off but she needs to know she can't behave like that with impunity. It's not like she is 7, and you need to know he has your back. What's going to happen when the younger one has a life event/marriage? She'll be telling Daddy that she won't go if nasty OP goes. You have a spineless DP issue here. Only you know whether you can ignore it/her or not.

Why on earth is he contributing to your household?! No wonder daughter isn't keen.

Sure, if that’s what they want they will have to iron this out. But in life we sometimes have to accept that what we ‘want’ can’t happen, or not without consequences. It sounds like the DP is fine with the situation and OP is not. So she needs to make her own choices.

As I said already, abusive texts aside we don’t really have any evidence that the DD is behaving like a brat. We’ve no context for the dislike, and OP is being silent on that or the texts (unless I’ve missed). I don’t consider it unreasonable to say ‘Dad I’m coming to visit, would you mind if Secrets didn’t come over when I’m there because it’s stressful for us all’. He can say no if he wishes, but he hasn’t.

On the other hand, OP has suggested the DD should be made to stay elsewhere if her ‘24/7 access’ is compromised. Pretty entitled no?

Thank you, that's an interesting point. I said what I did because people who are (happily?) married don't know what any of this feels like. They might think they know exactly how they would feel and behave if this were them in my situation, but the reality of these complicated situations may be completely different from their idealised imagined version of it. Also, MN is often full of vitriol towards women in a relationship with a man who's got kids (of any age), so it was just a disclaimer to say I'm really not bothered about those. Did you see the comment from the person who said, if that were them, they would just throw me out? That's the sort of thing I was distancing myself from.

is the DD30 worried that you will stake a claim to her inheritance? It could be as simple as that. Or she thinks you and your DC are his second family and that he's more interested in them than her?
The other clue is that he relied on his DDs for years for social interaction and now very much less so. She feels you have replaced her and she can't stand it.
You said
" the bottom line - it's her way or the highway, and she has punished him massively through withdrawal whenever he put our relationship first in any way."
You've described her bullying him because he won't change his plans with you at the last minute ( which isn't fair of her) and resenting it by turning the cold shoulder and now he's scared.
So it seems like he has tried.

I think its only fair to expect a person, who you have (really think about if this is correct or if she would see it as correct) treated respectfully and nicely and been welcoming to, treats you with the same respect.
She is an adult with her own life.. but I think she is jealous because she was with her sister Number 1 in her dad's life and now she feels she's not.

I think the only solution is your Partner to sit down with her and discuss, without letting her strop, exactly what she thinks the solution is.

1. Is she actually suggesting that he breaks up with you? Is it you personally or anyone he might have a relationship with in the future.Does she want him having a partner/companion ever? at all?

2. Can she think what it would be like if he treated her partner the way she treats you? If he was rude, walked out of the room when her partner entered. Ignored him. What if her partner got so fed up with DFs behaviour that he just left? How would she feel about DF? Would she wish he'd tried to modify his behaviour. How would she react if he said You can come for Xmas but your partner has to stay at home alone because I cant be in the same room as him.

3. How would she feel if he demanded that she drop arrangements she's made with her partner to spend time with him and if she didn't he started ignoring her.

4. DD 20 wont be living there forever. Does she want him to spend the rest of his life alone. How would a future partner be treated by her? Does she expect him to keep going through partner after partner and breaking up with them because she doesn't accept them? How would she feel if he treated her partner like that?

5. Does she want to be the person looking after him full time in his old age?
   6) Can he reassure her that it won't affect her inheritance?

6. What solutions does she have?

7. How much time does she actually want him to spend with her. How much would be enough.

8. does she want to host him for Christmas etc for the rest of her life?

9. can she imagine what it would be like if you both got on like you and DD20?

Its a long list. It might take more than one conversation.. Maybe he's not up to it.. if not could there be some kind of mediator?
But he should raise these topics with her. If her behaviour is due to in security or jealousy, then actually raising questions like these may make her see that she's not being fair.

Also. If their bedrooms are a bit of a shrine to when she lived there. I think it might be an idea of offer to redecorate so that it's a really nice room for her adult visits and more comfortable for her and her partner?

Maybe talking such points over with your partner would help you decide too.. how does he see your future together with this going on and on and fucking up every single family meeting. What if you banned him from all your family events?
It really depends on how he sees your relationship and what you want from it.
It's very sad to have a person involved who wants to split you up.
The DD30 needs therapy, but would probably be outraged if her DF suggested this. Has he also had a chat with her partner? Does the partner behave the same way to you?
You don't have to be best mates, although she's probably also jealous of your good relationship with DD20. You just have to be tolerant and respectful towards each other and that has to be genuine, not just performative welcomes followed by hard stares.

Is it quite strange… surely most women in their thirties would be really pleased their mam/dad has found a partner to be with and that they aren’t lonely?

Are you quite close in age to his eldest daughter?

depends on the partner?

Why would OP have altered the relationship though ? I’m not sure the problem here is DD just turning up to see her dad, it’s the fact that she’s rude to OP if she’s there. So to appease his DD, her dad keeps them separate. By the age of 30 I would expect any child of mine to be mature enough to be polite and civil, rather than expecting her dad’s life to revolve around her - especially when she has her own home and partner.

TBH, I think that the only time my husband's daughter was really pleased to have me around was when I became my husband's carer and then helped out with her mum to a small extent (after she was widowed yet again).

Someone upthread mentioned inheritance. Perhaps that's an issue.

After DH died, I realised that the kids had expected to inherit more. They hadn't realised that I was the main breadwinner in the household and we'd kept separate finances after being advised to do so by a bank manager.

Kids needs come first, yes, but not always their wants.

Very different things.

And she's hardly a kid is she, she's in her 30's.
I'd say you both need to sit down and try and forge some sort of friendship but I doubt she'd want to, for whatever reason. In which case, and take it from someone who knows OP, this won't get better.

How would you feel if your children’s father in future told them to stay somewhere else because his girlfriend didn’t get on with one of them and, even though she didn’t live with him, she wanted to drop by any time she felt like it?

Why would you want to be in his house when she is there? She is 30 and has her own life. Just keep away from her and enjoy your relationship. You are expecting something that is never going to happen. He can’t control his adult daughter.

How often is she visiting?

Most people would volunteer to not go around to their DPs home if their adult child was coming home for the weekend.

When my DC comes home from uni for the weekend, I wouldn’t even contemplate having a partner come around.

It sounds like this is more about you not wanting to be put second, rather than her actually affecting your life.

You say he and his younger DD are coming to yours for Xmas - so it’s not like he’s refusing to do things with you because of her.

I can see this creating issues in the future if this carries on but if you have no immediate plans to move in together then I really don’t see the problem.

The fact that the younger DD likes you is great because she’ll be able to get older DD on side easier than DH can.
And you respecting her boundaries will help too.

These things just take time. The older they are, the harder it often is.

If this wasn’t an issue - are you otherwise happy?
If so, then I’d give it another 12 months.
If this is just another issue that you guys have, then perhaps it’s worth rethinking the relationship.

@SceptredIsle

well to an extent… if she’s a criminal or something fair enough, but if ifs just that she’s doesn’t like OP and her personality than that’s irrelevant. She’s not the one going out with her, her dad is.

I don’t like nor speak to my Mum, I as a mature adult can still attend family gatherings and not make it awkward nor demand she isn’t invited.

Your partner has to put his foot down, she is going to ruin this relationship for him and also any others he has when you inevitably get fed up of him and his inability to stand up to an adult acting like a child.

I don’t think you’re a snowflake at all, and I do agree somewhat, but there has to be a middle ground and there doesn’t seem to be any here. At 30, DD should be able to appreciate that her dad has a long term partner and his own life, as, it appears does she.

Based on my own dad, I'd just say, no woman on this thread should underestimate what lies and omissions men will tell to make their lives easier.

OK so my parents split up when I was 5. My dad cheated. He tried to get back with my mum on and off for several years - she declined - he eventually gave up and settled down with the main OW. He's still with her. Even now, Dad's wife regularly teasingly refers to an incident where I apparently demanded age 15 that he drove me to see Suede in a city 4 hours drive away. I did no such thing. I didn't even know the concert was on and my dad surprised me with the tickets one school holidays. Peak Disney dad behaviour. But that's clearly not what his wife was told and she still jokingly comments about how spoilt of me it was to demand that he did that. And my dad knows that it would cause a row if I corrected it so I have to just go "uh huh". All of which is to say - men are cowards! You don't know what he's said to her about you, not even maliciously, just for an easy life - or how much you can trust of what he's said to you about her.

This is quite simple to me. Your DP has every right to dictate who is allowed in his house and when. If you don’t like it, you leave him.

Although I do suspect from the tone of OPs post that there is a valid reason that his DD doesn’t like her.

Op said:

When we were in the earlier stages of the relationship, she would turn up with virtually no notice and expect DP to cancel whatever plan he had with me, to see her. He was initially doing this, but after a few situations I said I wasn't okay with that because my time is also valuable, so if he's made a plan with me I expect him to stick to it. A little bit of notice is not unreasonable to ask for.

So daughter was unreasonable to expect Dad to cancel pre arranged plans just because she turned up. But how did these conversations go? What was said and who was blamed? Was the daughter told she couldn't just turn up anymore? Was she told to check before walking into her childhood home? Was she told she had to stop because OP didn't like it?

I do tell my Dad if I'm coming over, because it's a bit of a drive and I want to know if he's home. But when I lived closer I'd often just turn up. If he had plans that's fair enough, I wouldn't expect him to cancel anything. But they key is what happened here, the dynamic changed and it's not clear from OPs account what conversations took place.

Of course he can ‘control’ his adult DD. The problem seems to be that he doesn’t want to. She’s thirty, she has her own life, so why is she so invested in her fathers’ to the extent that she won’t be in the house while OP is there ? He needs to ask her outright what her problem is with OP and how she sees the future, because at the moment she’s making any long term relationship like marriage or even living together impossible.

We have adult children and they wouldn’t dream of turning up unannounced, assuming we had no plans. This was their childhood home, but it’s also mine and DH’s so they respect our privacy and don’t just walk in whenever they feel like it. It seems that in OP’s case the DD was demanding her dad cancel whatever plans he had with OP to spend time with her - I think that should have been nipped in the bud long ago.

It's not unreasonable to give them some space. What are you wanting for your future? If you plan on cohabiting I can't see it working as daughter will make him choose her or you, or you would, and it doesn't sound like he'd choose you.