Stop gaslighting yourselves, secrecy with devices is abnormal

[somewhereovertherainbow26]

About 25 years ago, the internet started creating a whole new set of problems for relationships, when it suddenly became possible for people to be secretive and sneaky in ways they simply could not have been before.

For the vast majority of human history it's been totally standard to be obvious about communicating with others.

Until very recently, to communicate you either phoned on a landline and had to run the gauntlet of whoever might answer the phone, you wrote them a letter which could quite easily be seen arriving on the doormat, you knocked on their front door, or you went somewhere and met them, which meant you had to physically go out of your way to keep it secret.

But somehow over the last 15 or 20 years some have been massively gaslighted into believing that secrecy is somehow a normal and healthy part of a relationship.

It's not.

There are a core few women on this site who will instantly jump in and tell you being secretive with devices is just privacy.

It's not. It's a very new issue and it's not remotely normal.

These people are very much in the minority, but they are mouthy and quick to jump on any OP discussing their discovery of abuse by their husband/partner through messages/emails.

You must learn to totally ignore them, don't feed the fantasy that it's normal to be sly. Don't even response to their interrogation, just as you would ignore anybody who tells you to accept abuse and tries to victim blame you.

You don't have to just meekly accept this bizarre gaslighting as standard.

We have complete access to each other's devices, just like nearly everyone past the age of 21, and we very rarely use that access, but of course we can. Because that's normal when you are living together and sharing your life.

If someone is saying that you are somehow just as bad as your cheating, abusive partner because you checked their phone, they are lying to you. If they are claiming looking at someone's device is abuse they are lying to you.

They themselves are secretive and sly, or they have been very badly gaslit.

And no need at all to mention coercive control, that's a completely different issue and you are definitely not worried about that at all. You're just trying to deflect.

We're talking about normal relationships, where deliberately hiding access to devices is sly, it's secrecy and it's a big problem. It's not normal.

If your response to someone exposing their partner for cheating or abusing them through messages is to immediately ask how they managed to access those messages, then congratulations, you have basically outed yourself as either a cheater or an abuser - or you need to reassess the level of gaslighting you have internalised.

Make ignoring these ridiculous questions the norm and absolutely ignore these attempts to derail and cover up abusive behaviour. Get back to normalising reality.

It's normal, standard and fine to look at your husband/wife/partner's devices.

Only cheaters, liars and those who've been gaslit could possibly believe otherwise.

And no, you don't think I'm coercive or abusive. And if you claim you do, you're projecting.

It's normal, standard and fine to look at your husband/wife/partner's devices.
Only cheaters, liars and those who've been gaslit could possibly believe otherwise

What a pile of absolute crap.

Do you also open your partner's paper mail? Intercept their email? Demand to listen into phone calls? Track them electronically when they are out of your sight?

Privacy is a basic right, it doesn't cease to be a right just because you are in a relationship.

Pre personal devices, I never read anyone else’s mail nor listened in to their phone calls. Because privacy has always been important.

Well said.

I think there's some conflation with reading someone's journal - their private thoughts, written down for their own purposes which may have little to do with everyday reality.

The thing is, a private journal isn't a communication. 'Snooping' on devices hardly ever entails journal-like material, it's 90% about messaging and the rest mostly relates to porn access. These are everyday realities; they very much impact the person and the relationship.

Sometimes, of course, it's even justifiable to read a journal. The police do.

Secrecy and privacy are different.

My granddad wouldn't ever go in my gran's purse without permission. 50 or more years ago.

Secrecy and privacy are different.

Agreed - but try telling that to a very private secretive person!

But somehow over the last 15 or 20 years some have been massively gaslighted into believing that secrecy is somehow a normal and healthy part of a relationship

Owning a personal device with a lock function is not "secrecy", it's common bloody sense to lock your phone when not in use given that they hold personal details, log-ins, bank access etc. They fact they come with some basic security function does not mean the are an inherently nefarious device or that users who make good and proper use of that have something to hide.

There are a core few women on this site who will instantly jump in and tell you being secretive with devices is just privacy.
It's not. It's a very new issue and it's not remotely normal

It's not a "new issue" at all. There are laws about opening private mail, illicitly monitoring phone conversations etc. The law has long realised and accepted that individuals have a right to privacy, the advent of handheld telephony and internet access changes nothing at all about this fundamental precept.

You go on to make this absolutely ridiculous claim -

If someone is saying that you are somehow just as bad as your cheating, abusive partner because you checked their phone, they are lying to you. If they are claiming looking at someone's device is abuse they are lying to you.
They themselves are secretive and sly, or they have been very badly gaslit.

And then this corker -

Only cheaters, liars and those who've been gaslit could possibly believe otherwise

And then to top it off, you even have the brass neck to accuse other people of "projecting" -

And no, you don't think I'm coercive or abusive. And if you claim you do, you're projecting

😂

If pre mobile phones you were the type of person that had no qualms about reading someone’s diary, opening their post, listening to their ‘phone calls or quizzing them whenever they met up with friends then I can see why you’d want people to think that free access to your partners mobile was normal. But to me, privacy has always been import and and I’d see a partners insistence on the ‘right’ to free access as invasive and controlling, and a sign of someone deeply insecure. And no hyperbolic use of words like ‘gaslighting’, ‘secrecy’ or ‘sly’ is going to make me change my mind. Because my phone not only contains information personal to me, but by the nature of messages exchanged with friends, personal to them too. And they’re comfortable to confide in me because they know that in doing so they have complete confidentiality.

Would you read someone else’s mail then? Mail is communication.

privacy has always been import and and I’d see a partners insistence on the ‘right’ to free access as invasive and controlling, and a sign of someone deeply insecure

Quite.

If you don't have inherent trust you do not have a relationship. If you are incapable of trusting without resorting to gross invasions of your partner's right to privacy, then the issue is entirely yours and you really need to get some help with your insecurity/jealousy/paranoia, and stop expecting your partner to demean themselves in order to pander to your personal flaws.

If any partner even hinted at wanting to snoop on my phone they'd be instantly out of the door. Not because I have anything whatsoever to hide, but because I actually have some self-respect.

Agreed. If I knew that my friends’ partners had free access to their devices, I’d stop messaging those friends. Because that’s my communication they’d be snooping on, not just their partners.

Exactly! The correspondence is happening with you, not your partner. Maybe my sister or close friend has confided something in me, despite what people on here sometimes say, my partner has absolutely no right to that information.

I’m actually not opposed to people checking the phones of partners who are displaying overt suspicious behaviour and are not being honest about it. But only where the signs are pointing very strongly to them hiding something that would have a serious impact on you.

In general, though, I see no reason to have access to each others phones. My partner and I don’t have each other’s phone passcodes. I’ve never once needed to get into his phone. I just ask him for whatever it is I need that might be on there.

I'd notice if a partner was receiving regular post from the same person and never shared anything about it.

That's partly the point, isn't it. Nobody's advocating obsessive monitoring of a partner's phone, that would be pathological. It's when you notice odd little things or small changes that don't add up. You talk. He calls you crazy, paranoid, nosey or controlling. You feel even more like he's hiding something ...

I think you’re partway right OP.

I think being able to use your partner’s phone to check the weather, make a phone call etc is normal. I’d be very concerned if my partner had to hover over me or give me special permission for casual and incidental use.

But I don’t think you should read through each other’s messages to friends/family without permission - that crosses a line.

My DP knows my lock screen pin and has on occasion used my phone - typically when he’s lost his phone and needs to ring it! But he would never go through my messages and I’d be upset if he did. And I’d never go through his.

If you really believe your partner is having an affair, I think it’s fine to have a look at their phone. But think you should stick to looking for dodgy stuff and you shouldn’t rifle through every conversation they’ve ever had. This should be a pretty dramatic step though and not a check that’s carried out regularly. Most women shouldn’t ever need to do it, and the same goes for men.

It wouldn’t be fair to friends who have messaged me about personal stuff and as much as I love DP, I might not want him to be privy to certain conversations I have. And likewise - he needs space to talk to his friends without worrying that I might be scrutinising every word.

But keeping phones out of reach and with secret PIN codes suggests something to hide or issues with trust. I don’t think that’s a healthy approach in a long-term relationship.

Access to the phone V access and permission to read everything on it are different. I know my partners password and if I don’t have my phone to hand I might use his to take a picture, satnav or google something. But I wouldn’t just pick it up and start reading his messages. Are you saying that should be normalised? Agree with others that privacy and secrecy are different.

If someone has a suspicion of cheating and they confirm it by reading messages I don’t have a problem with that. Most wouldn’t would they? It’s when the person hasn’t cheated but their privacy has been breeched with phone checking that people seem to have a problem with I think? But in either case I think if you don’t trust someone and are suspicious of them it’s usually game over anyway so what does it matter.

Definitely all of this.

Absolutely, @SpidersAreShitheads.

Ordinary privacy relies on trust and respect. If someone browses all your conversations with friends, they're not respecting your privacy. If they keep their phone locked at all times and won't share the PIN, they're not trusting you with their privacy (and you have to wonder why).

If you feel the need to have access to your partners phone then your relationship is probably already dead in the water. Time and time again I’ve seen women on here who say they need evidence of cheating, no you don’t, if you are not happy in a relationship you can leave at any time and no one will ask for evidence.

Why on earth would i need to use a partners phone i have my own and although I am an open book anyone who wants to look at my phone will find it trussed up like a vicar on a good night out

So stick this in your gusset and smoke it, any partner would be told

Absolute bullshit. People have a right to privacy. My partner going through my emails or messages would be a breach of trust. I have nothing to hide, but that's not the point.

I would no more snoop on my husband’s phone than I would read his post. And he feels the same. It’s a simple matter of trust and respect. I don’t know who who hurt you, OP and made you bitter and chronically suspicious, but there is nothing normal about what you suggest. It’s corrosive and a very, very last resort, although seldom necessary. What are YOU hiding? Please seek psychological help.

OP seems intent on obsessive monitoring. Also, seems like an angry wingnut.

Stop gaslighting yourself OP. Who is it that needs access to your phone? Do you not have conversations on text with friends, who would not like your partner reading their messages? An email receipt of a Christmas gift for your partner, something you’d like to surprise them with? I can pick up my partner’s phone if needed, but I have my own. Would you tell your daughter that it’s normal to give access to her phone, because you sound so wise, you will definitely be one step ahead of everyone else and be able to spot an abuser, when the first tiny step is accessing her phone, so that would never be a problem for you. Her partner can then nicely gaslight her because “mum says you must have something to hide “.

Check yourself OP. We are not all sly or cheating. It’s not normal to need access to a device for the reasons you’ve given.

Letters have always been private. Just because someone could stumble upon them doesn’t mean they aren’t private.

Exactly.

I can see both sides to this. Personally me and my partner have nothing secret or hidden on our phones, and neither of us would have a second thought of the other person using it. In fact we do use each others quite a bit, depending on who we are messaging, or if one runs out of battery etc.

But, the other posters are right, you should still have the ability to be able to keep things private if you wish.

I guess my problem is with the fact that the whole phone becomes the "private" thing. I think its because phones are so encompassing and wide reaching in what they do for our lives. Instead of having 1 private note-book, its a whole private reading room/library.. and instead of having a few private letters, its a whole private post-room etc. Its such a big device, it feels a bit extreme to say that absolutely the whole thing is off limits to the person you are mean to be closest to.