Stop gaslighting yourselves, secrecy with devices is abnormal

[somewhereovertherainbow26]

About 25 years ago, the internet started creating a whole new set of problems for relationships, when it suddenly became possible for people to be secretive and sneaky in ways they simply could not have been before.

For the vast majority of human history it's been totally standard to be obvious about communicating with others.

Until very recently, to communicate you either phoned on a landline and had to run the gauntlet of whoever might answer the phone, you wrote them a letter which could quite easily be seen arriving on the doormat, you knocked on their front door, or you went somewhere and met them, which meant you had to physically go out of your way to keep it secret.

But somehow over the last 15 or 20 years some have been massively gaslighted into believing that secrecy is somehow a normal and healthy part of a relationship.

It's not.

There are a core few women on this site who will instantly jump in and tell you being secretive with devices is just privacy.

It's not. It's a very new issue and it's not remotely normal.

These people are very much in the minority, but they are mouthy and quick to jump on any OP discussing their discovery of abuse by their husband/partner through messages/emails.

You must learn to totally ignore them, don't feed the fantasy that it's normal to be sly. Don't even response to their interrogation, just as you would ignore anybody who tells you to accept abuse and tries to victim blame you.

You don't have to just meekly accept this bizarre gaslighting as standard.

We have complete access to each other's devices, just like nearly everyone past the age of 21, and we very rarely use that access, but of course we can. Because that's normal when you are living together and sharing your life.

If someone is saying that you are somehow just as bad as your cheating, abusive partner because you checked their phone, they are lying to you. If they are claiming looking at someone's device is abuse they are lying to you.

They themselves are secretive and sly, or they have been very badly gaslit.

And no need at all to mention coercive control, that's a completely different issue and you are definitely not worried about that at all. You're just trying to deflect.

We're talking about normal relationships, where deliberately hiding access to devices is sly, it's secrecy and it's a big problem. It's not normal.

If your response to someone exposing their partner for cheating or abusing them through messages is to immediately ask how they managed to access those messages, then congratulations, you have basically outed yourself as either a cheater or an abuser - or you need to reassess the level of gaslighting you have internalised.

Make ignoring these ridiculous questions the norm and absolutely ignore these attempts to derail and cover up abusive behaviour. Get back to normalising reality.

It's normal, standard and fine to look at your husband/wife/partner's devices.

Only cheaters, liars and those who've been gaslit could possibly believe otherwise.

And no, you don't think I'm coercive or abusive. And if you claim you do, you're projecting.

You're either an abusive partner or someone who has the privilege of never having been in an abusive relationship. Normalising the level of access you're talking about makes it infinitely harder for people being abused to leave, which is why abusers monitor their partner's phones. If all of your messages, location history, and finances are available to your partner how can you gather the means to escape?

If you think your partner is having an affair, your relationship is already in real trouble. Why do you need to "prove" it in an age of no-fault divorce?

DH and I have each others passcodes but we would never read each other’s messages. I have no problem with him being able to access my phone because I know he will respect my privacy. I think there is a difference between being relaxed about having access and DH expecting to be able to read my private communications.

I agree with you to a point but I think overall YABU because what you say amounts to an assertion that married people or people in relationships should be able to open each others mail. Which is clearly wrong.

As I said - we have complete access to each other's devices, just like nearly everyone past the age of 21, and we very rarely use that access, but of course we can. Because that's normal when you are living together and sharing your life.

You must learn to totally ignore them, don't feed the fantasy that it's normal to be sly. Don't even response to their interrogation, just as you would ignore anybody who tells you to accept abuse and tries to victim blame you.

Do as I do have an absolutely normal, standard, trusting relationship. And totally ignore the gaslighters :) 😎

😂

There is nothing "absolutely normal" or "trusting" about having unfettered access to your romantic partner's phone.

Aside from the intrusion into privacy, it's also an enormous security vulnerability.

And you still continue to accuse everyone else of "gaslighting" 😂

You do you op! As long as you and your partner are happy with the arrangement then that’s great. Other couples prefer to do things differently - that’s also ok!

My phone is private. And I don't allow anyone else access to it. And that's because of an ex partner who was abusive, who would read my messages and invent meanings behind then and use these as "justification" for his subsequent abuse.

none of these messages were to another man. They were normal messages to friends. But abusers gaslight and his intention was to isolate me from my friends.

never again. My phone is mine and mine alone.

and apart from that, it's a work phone with access to work emails etc, which work expect to remain confidential. We sign an agreement to confirm that. And the security measures put there by our it department forces regular passcode changes.

Everyone has, and is entitled to, three lives: a public life, a personal life, and a private life that belongs to them alone.

And of that private life is shared on their devices, then partners must respect that.

Tell me you are controlling without telling me you are controlling.

If you need access to your partner's phone to feel secure in the relationship, you shouldn't be in it.

THIS IS NOT GAS LIGHTING

Many people email accounts etc will contain sensitive work information. DH has a eork phone and a work laptop. Should I demand access to them as well?

YOU MEAN MANIPULATED

AND YES I KNOW IM SHOUTING

This is a bizarrely shrill and sanctimonious post which makes me think there’s a back story here and a lot of emotion but I think this is the wrong analogy.

As others have pointed out in a pre internet age you wouldn’t expect your partner to have constant access to your letters or to be listening in to phone calls.

I also think that if you get to the stage of having to monitor someone’s phone communications and act like the policeman of their social life your marriage/relationship is over.

Well done you for your insecure, paranoid and controlling relationship. I will never again allow a man to go through my phone (yes, I knew he had the code, but didn’t care because I have nothing to hide), simply because he’s insecure.

I am allowed my fucking privacy, just as I would expect it when going to the toilet.

I have friends and family who I have conversations with where they tell me things in complete confidence - so someone going through my phone and potentially reading those conversations is a violation of my privacy, their privacy, and also the trust they had in me when telling me something they didn’t want anyone else to know.

Sorry, but fuck right off and go and see a therapist for your deranged post.

You know the meds they have you on to keep you normal and sane? You shouldn’t have forgotten to take them today. Please go and take them now - this is why you’re supposed to take them; you’re embarrassing yourself, dear.

In some ways I can see where you’re coming from. It’s more that the devices bring overlapping privacy into private relationship spaces. For example someone can message your partner while they’re lying in bed— previously that would have been a special couple place.

It was never ok for people to read eachother's letters, eavesdrop on conversations or control your partner's friendships or opinions. People are entitled to say things about their own life that they might not want certain others to read or see.

It never used to be possible to snoop on other people's conversations like this as they weren't written down in texts. It doesn't mean it's OK to read things that are not aimed at you. And the person who wrote them did not send them to you.

Obviously if something is public then all bets are off. But lots of things on someone's phone are deeply private.

What’s with these AI posts.

But I use notes for private diary sort of stuff should a partner be able to browse through that IYO?

This is not gaslighting FFS.
Also, you're deranged.

If a whole load of letters were arriving you'd notice. You wouldn't even need to open them to start a conversation.

Diary-writing is a completely different activity, obviously.

There is a difference between asking to use someone’s phone, and going through their email or messages or browsing history.

The first is what I’d call normal - including knowing your partner’s passcode (especially important if you have shared financials etc) - the second is emphatically not normal. It’s snooping and a gross invasion of privacy. I’d no more go through DH’s phone than I would open his post. He wouldn’t mind if I did, but to me it’s a violation.

Transparency in a relationship doesn’t mean laying yourself bare like an anatomical specimen - and I should think most marriages are healthier for a certain degree of separation and autonomy.

I have never once even thought to check my husbands phone. Same for him. However he knows my pin but i trust him not to go snooping.