Stop gaslighting yourselves, secrecy with devices is abnormal

[somewhereovertherainbow26]

About 25 years ago, the internet started creating a whole new set of problems for relationships, when it suddenly became possible for people to be secretive and sneaky in ways they simply could not have been before.

For the vast majority of human history it's been totally standard to be obvious about communicating with others.

Until very recently, to communicate you either phoned on a landline and had to run the gauntlet of whoever might answer the phone, you wrote them a letter which could quite easily be seen arriving on the doormat, you knocked on their front door, or you went somewhere and met them, which meant you had to physically go out of your way to keep it secret.

But somehow over the last 15 or 20 years some have been massively gaslighted into believing that secrecy is somehow a normal and healthy part of a relationship.

It's not.

There are a core few women on this site who will instantly jump in and tell you being secretive with devices is just privacy.

It's not. It's a very new issue and it's not remotely normal.

These people are very much in the minority, but they are mouthy and quick to jump on any OP discussing their discovery of abuse by their husband/partner through messages/emails.

You must learn to totally ignore them, don't feed the fantasy that it's normal to be sly. Don't even response to their interrogation, just as you would ignore anybody who tells you to accept abuse and tries to victim blame you.

You don't have to just meekly accept this bizarre gaslighting as standard.

We have complete access to each other's devices, just like nearly everyone past the age of 21, and we very rarely use that access, but of course we can. Because that's normal when you are living together and sharing your life.

If someone is saying that you are somehow just as bad as your cheating, abusive partner because you checked their phone, they are lying to you. If they are claiming looking at someone's device is abuse they are lying to you.

They themselves are secretive and sly, or they have been very badly gaslit.

And no need at all to mention coercive control, that's a completely different issue and you are definitely not worried about that at all. You're just trying to deflect.

We're talking about normal relationships, where deliberately hiding access to devices is sly, it's secrecy and it's a big problem. It's not normal.

If your response to someone exposing their partner for cheating or abusing them through messages is to immediately ask how they managed to access those messages, then congratulations, you have basically outed yourself as either a cheater or an abuser - or you need to reassess the level of gaslighting you have internalised.

Make ignoring these ridiculous questions the norm and absolutely ignore these attempts to derail and cover up abusive behaviour. Get back to normalising reality.

It's normal, standard and fine to look at your husband/wife/partner's devices.

Only cheaters, liars and those who've been gaslit could possibly believe otherwise.

And no, you don't think I'm coercive or abusive. And if you claim you do, you're projecting.

Congratulations for being able to use AI

Pointless you asking if people think you're being unreasonable. You have an entrenched viewpoint and zero nuances about it and have no interest in anyone else's opinion.

That's a very odd post and is repetitive and unclear in places.

My husband has used my phone and me his and we wouldn’t think anything of it.

Going through someone’s phone has the potential to be abusive, using a phone for nefarious purposes has the potential to be abusive.

There is not black or white on this issue.

MN often comes down on one side on nuanced issues.

😆 Thank you maxslice

My first thought, reading this post, was that we have reached the point of singularity. Claude has become sentient, joined Mumsnet and is so concerned about legions of folk being in denial about their cheating partners it has generated a post about it at 3:33am of a Monday morning.

And then I thought I would probably get told off for pointing out that the whole post was demonstrably AI. And then I thought maybe I am ok with being told off. 🤔

OP, whoever you are, I’m very unclear for the reason you’re posting. Are you writing a book? What kinds of responses or outcome are you seeking?

Also, I see you’re brand-new here - welcome to Mumsnet!

I use my phone to access work systems (including my email). Under our work policies, you are not allowed to have anyone else access your phone.

Nah
I'm absolutely fine handing my unlocked phone to DH to use to Google something or call someone or look something up that I need because there is nothing on there that he 'shouldn't' see and vice versa but we would never look through each other's phone without permission (nor would we want to, absent a very good reason) because it's not each other's business. I don't want him to read all the chats I have with my friends just as I wouldn't want him to be sitting in the room when I talk to them in person all the time. You can be too much of an open book.
And these days I have Chatgpt which I use like a journal in many ways and it's very private. Try thinking of modern ways of using devices as equivalent to pre-smartphone ways of communicating and you might grasp the point of privacy.

Me and my partner aren’t bothered about phones and iPads we have each others password if mine goes and it’s near him I’ll ask him to read it to me and he’ll do the same to me. If we’re out of the room the other will answer a call if it’s one the other wouldn’t want to miss. He’s quite useless with sorting minor problems like missing parcels etc so I’ll use his phone to sort that out send relevant emails and things. If my phones charging upstairs I’ll use his phone to google something and he will do the same on mine. It’s not a big deal in our house.

The bases of a good relationship are shared values and trust. It is not normal to allow a partner to go through your phone. Excessive secrecy around a device, especially if this is a change of behaviour, can be an indication of something being concealed. Still doesn't mean a partner has the right to go through the phone/tablet/laptop.

Can people please stop using fecking AI to write their bloody posts!

What a weird take

I don't accept your premise that it has historically been normal for conversation to be obvious.

If I wanted to ring someone I would stretch the phone cable into a private room. I would ring when I was alone in the house. I would ring when I knew the person I was ringing was alone. I would have a "signal" or organise a time to call so that the person I was ringing would answer the phone and not someone else. If could always claim the person ringing was a wrong number of lie that it was my mum. I could ring from a public phone box.

If I wanted to write to someone I didn't expect someone to read my letter. I could send it without anyone else knowing. The recipient could lie about who it was from. I could send it to a post office box or via a friend if I didn't want to send it to a particular address.

Access to someone's phone gives you way more access into their private life than was ever possible historically. They are thinking about a holiday to Brighton? Previously that was just a thought; now it's some entries in their browser history.

You do like the word gaslighting don’t you.

A shame then that you don’t actually know what it means. This isn’t it.

This is what Dario Amodei has been warning us about. Recursive self improvement as applied to Mumsnet.

Wait to see what Claud(ine) thinks about breast vs bottle, whether working mums are “farming out” their children and the most recent parking diagram.

Exactly my thoughts. A pile of AI generated drivel.

There are a core few women on this site who will instantly jump in and tell you being secretive with devices is just privacy.
It's not. It's a very new issue and it's not remotely normal

it’s not new and it’s totally normal.

Being in a relationship does not entitle another person to unrestricted access to your private conversations, messages, searches or thoughts. You are still an individual, and you are allowed privacy.

any man demanding access to your phone is not a good one

This response has got it in one!

Just because you are in a relationship doesn't mean you forgo the right to privacy. Partners don't own each other.

Even excepting the fact that I deal with confidential things at work it would be totally wrong for dp to have access to.

Until very recently, to communicate you either phoned on a landline and had to run the gauntlet of whoever might answer the phone, you wrote them a letter which could quite easily be seen arriving on the doormat, you knocked on their front door, or you went somewhere and met them, which meant you had to physically go out of your way to keep it secret.

I think you're viewing this through (lightly) rose-tinted glasses. The landline - it was a fairly standard signifier of an affair in film or TV dramas for the landline to start receiving dropped calls - which would be affair partner phoning and hanging up if the wrong person answered.

Meeting them - stating the obvious, no matter how much you might get up to via mobile phone nowadays, most people still want to meet up for actual time together and real sex - that hasn't really changed.

Letter-writing - if you wanted to be devious you'd send it in a window envelope with the address typed, so the recipient could pass it off as a bill. Most mail used to come first thing in the morning, before people left for work, but you'd get the odd thing in the second post around midday - usually items posted First Class (to meet next day delivery standards).

DH and I are fine with reading each other’s text messages etc. Generally, we don’t bother but given there’s nothing to hide it doesn’t bother us. We’re on three of the same hobby group chats so there’s no hiding there either 😂

For the vast majority of human history it's been totally standard to be obvious about communicating with others.

😂 oh no it hasn’t. Quite the opposite really.

Do you know what gaslighting means? I'm surprised you didn't throw safeguarding in there, too.

Even if your partner gives you access to their phone and communications, you’re still violating the THIRD person’s right to privacy.

Obviously no one was ever able to conduct an affair prior to the launch of mobile telephones 😁

Aw, someone thinks they're very clever!

"And no, you don't think I'm coercive or abusive. And if you claim you do, you're projecting"

You really thought you'd squared that circle, didn't you? 🤣 My guess is this is a man. Using AI to get the appropriate level of drama!

This is so weird. And repeating the word gaslight does not make your argument more compelling. Or are you being intentionally ironic?