AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

@Thepeopleversusworkcan you link to the thread you mentioned on your OP?

i admit I feel similar to you whenever I read threads about friends, in that kind of my first thoughts is inevitably “how did they meet their partner, then?”

Personally making friends is something that i’ve struggled with all my life, but it’s got easier as I got older (and am less self conscious) and I’ve thankfully never been in a situation where I’ve had no one. So I do empathise with people who post about their struggles. I do not understand posters who are adamant that the only people they need in life is their spouse / DCs. I also get frustrated by posts about “cliques” of school mums. The posts that are so dismissive of people who’ve deigned to make friends with fellow school parents, or with colleagues. Then there are the posts about how they would never want to be friends with a group of women because they are all bitches.

I’m happy that I’ve been able to model good friendships to my DC. My DH and I have friends from different stages of our lives that we see regularly and our DCs know that our time with friends is important to us. Thankfully, somehow, both my DCs are much more sociable and outgoing than DH and I ever were as teens so hopefully won’t experience some of the challenges we did.

I’m quite lucky that I have quite a few different friends, though obviously more have drifted over the years
it shocks me that people will put up with a terrible partner, verging on abuse but apparently friends who don’t text back quickly enough or remember their multiple kids’ birthdays are thrown away. So much point scoring between friends but you can do everything in the house, pay for most of your children’s extras, work full time and have a partner who spends his time on his “hobby”… but that requires no point scoring?

also I agree with a pp, I have found a few of my friends only want social media friendships nowadays? Sending memes or whatever. Like what is this?

i have had a few friends who have ditched me when they meet a guy, or have kids (fair enough for the 2nd), or make new ”mum friends” and then swan back around 3 years later when they’re lonely asking if I want to catch up? It’s a bit like… well no not really? I’m sure they’re hurt or pissed off or whatever, but i couldn’t get a text back from some of them and now you’re lonely I’m supposed to be grateful and excited to see you?
it’s quite annoying actually

It’s a horrible word. I’m also AuDHD and have been called that for years. It’s awful. People use it in a negative way, it is never in a neutral way.

Also I was on the thread you’re referencing (did it disappear?) and I think the lady was on a wind up toward the end

I use it fondly as it's what I've always been - and frankly I'm not unhappy that I don't fit into our current society well! I'm not sure I'd want to.

I don't know, that's partly why I'm posting about it I think. I'm not a psychologist or a social scientist so this is pure guesswork, but off the top of my head:

There are the obvious often-recommended things, such as joining a hobby group etc. These are all good ideas but they don't fix the underlying issues of atomisation, low self-confidence and anxiety.

Getting help with mental health issues earlier and before they become hard-wired (obviously that's much harder than it sounds given the state of mental health in the UK)

I think (counterintuitively) that people need to learn to be more comfortable with themselves and learn to "sit with" difficult emotions. Which would help minmise codependency on immediate family.

I would speculate that spending less time on social media would be a start as it would force people to develop their social muscle.

I also think women (in particular - male isolation is real but I think its a slightly different phenomenon) need to be encouraged to focus on their networks. As discussed a lot upthread, I think there is still a tendency to become over-dependent on the immediate family and deprioritise external networks when you settle down and have children.

And just committing to a "feel the fear and do it anyway" approach. So much easier to duck out of things when you feel anxious but its a fake it 'til you make it approach.

Those are just starting points.

Respectfully, this is a generalisation :

the cost to you of opting out of social interactions altogether is going to be much much higher in the long-term than the occasional cost of keeping them ticking along.

It may be for you and it may be for some people but don’t speak for others. Opting out of social interactions can be a positive thing for someone.

I’ve got a friend in a group where there are one or two people she told me she doesn’t like at all. She wants to leave the group but is worried now she’ll be lonely as she has spent a lot of time with them at the expense of other friendships.

You do have to put some effort in. Through my hobby and various jobs I do I'm constantly meeting new people. I'm used to striking up conversation with absolutely anyone and sometimes you really get on and feel comfortable with that person. Sometimes you don't. You have to put yourself out there. I get to enjoy my hobby as it is and if I make some friends along the way then great. But you do actually have to speak to people. Shared interests are a very easy way in for anyone feeling uncomfortable.

You remember when the swordsman spent ages faffing and performing and making a big show, and then Indiana Jones pulled out his gun and just shot the guy?

Obviously there will still be people who liked the sword display and complain that Indy wasn't being nuanced or whatever. Doesn't really matter.

Honestly, @Thepeopleversuswork I think your premise is mistaken. It's not the case that people find it easier to find a life partner than a friend. I think often the case is that people have a group of friends, then they start dating someone, a lot of times in their 20s or 30s, or even earlier. They still have the group of friends, they date, then they get married, they have kids, right at the time often that their careers are taking off and rwquirw more time at work.
Then they have to care for kids, work, keep a house, they don't have time during the week to socialise much (if ever). The weekends are the only time they get to really spend with the kids and the husband or the wife, and that means that the friendships are not nourished as they were before, and then they end up fading.
So the case is not it's easier to find a life partner than a friend. The case is life moves on. Your list of "important things" requiring toue time and attenion starts increasing, and friends are normally people who, if they don't get the same attention/time in return, they simply fade out.
When you go from:
friends + work + dating (20s)
To
partner + children + school + career + household + extended family + ageing parents + finances + health + friends + trying to have some time alone
Something gives...

This entire post rests on the inaccurate assumption that people want or need a number of close friendships.

A big part of it is life stage, I have always been very shy but it was easy to find a partner because DH led the interactions and I was a teenager when it was expected. There was a lot of pressure to have a boyfriend and once we were coupled up he then decided he was moving in, we were getting married, I was then pregnant...somewhere along the line I've got a house full of teens and tweens and no friends at all. We've moved a lot so I've got no one I know from school or uni and although I did make friends then it was initiated by them and they were controlling unbalanced friendships where they took advantage of me and I was relieved to leave them behind and has left me wary of getting to know anyone new. I feel sick at the thought of making a friend but I also wouldn't dream of attempting to meet a new partner if something happened to my DH now.

How about encouraging people to be able to live with and without people?

What is the benefit to the ‘feel the fear’ approach with social interaction? It’s supposed to be fun. What’s the point if it causes anxiety?

Where has anyone said they are completely opting out?

Many people are still talking to others. You don’t have to be friends to chat to someone.

Also, just because it isn’t personally draining to you doesn’t mean it can’t be to someone else.

Everyone has their own bandwidths and they fluctuate daily for many people. Some days no one minds listening to a boring relative and other days it is tiring.

As long as that doesn’t mean striking up conversations with strangers 😬

I agree this is a hugely important issue.

I am reading Gordon Brown's new book, for which a big international study was commissioned (many tens of thousands of people across the developed world).
In the UK, 65% of adults have three or fewer friends, and 12%, 8 million adults, have no friends.
The UK is not an outlier, but about average compared to other countries.

He talks about how this is linked to the complete hollowing out of community participation (e.g. the WI, church groups, scouts, working men's social clubs, music clubs, sports teams, youth clubs, volunteering, etc. etc.) and how damaging this is to the fabric of society.

But the importance of the issue doesn't make it any easier for some of us to make friends.

Men will let you off with being socially inept because you shag them. Your friends or potential friends probably won’t.

Sniffers should be euthanised 😆

I am always curious about who benefits from this ‘society’ that people talk about.

Do we all have to force ourselves out there in order to create a society for others?

Respectfully, you really don't understand.

Listening to a boring relative is in no way comparable to meeting a friend for coffee in terms of how draining they are. The former is easier.

And no, your posts in no way indicate that you have 'introvert tendencies'.
That is almost as offensive as a neurotypical person claiming to be 'a bit autistic'.

I came back ( sorry!). No idea what the deleted post was.
But now the thread seems to be: well I would rather have no friends at all, than a bunch of awful friends I don't like. I enjoy my own compant.
But surely there must be something in between? Social media tends to be extremes.
I say this as a 54 yr old empty nester married for 29 years, so I have more time for friends than most. I don't want a huge circle, but I want a few more. Unfortunately DH is a recluse.

One thing I have noticed is that it often seems taboo to talk about wanting to make friends. No one would bat an eyelid if I got divorced and wanted a new man, but wanting to make new friends is somehow cringe. Why?

To clarify my wording;

The 'emotional energy' cost is related to being introvert - this draining happens no matter how uninvested or disinterested I am. It is a function of being in a social situation. A better term would be something like 'life energy'.

The 'emotional investment', is a different thing, and yes, that can be dispensed with. But if I wasn't at all invested or interested in being friends, then why would I bother going for coffee in the first place?

Sorry, but that's a bit of a leap. Being neurodiverse is a distinct medical phenomenon. Introversion isn't, it's an element of your personality, and it's not "offensive" to say you can identify with some elements of this.

I think the pathologisation of both "introversion" and "extroversion" (both of which are wildly mischaracterised on here and used as a figleaf for various kinds of antisocial behaviour) is actually part of the problem here.

But how do you define 'friend'? As any 3 people and chances are you have 3 very different sets of criteria. I could have 4, 3, 2, 1 or 0.