AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

For sure. I quite enjoy making small talk in a supermarket queue if a (usually elderly) woman strikes up a conversation, I like chatting to my kids' teachers, friends, and friends' parents at school events, have a few situational acquaintances in regards to a hobby, and spend a lot of time with (often elderly) extended family, in addition to my DH and teenage children. I really just don't have the time, energy, or inclination to make any actual friends. It would be exhausting, and not rewarding enough for the time and effort it takes.

OP, are you on the autistic spectrum?

This is how DH is. He chats pleasantly to people but is not interested in going further.
The downside is that I am his sole emotional repository. I have to listen to everything that is wrong with his life. Lucky I have a few friends to talk to about my difficult menopause, because he doesn't get it!

And he is dealing very badly with the empty nest. Clings to the DC, who have their own lives.

I feel like you're pathologising people who are just happy not to have friends.

If you're talking about people who want friends and feel incapable of making them, that's a problem of course. But in your OP you're talking about people who don't want friends. So what's the problem?

Because living without people is not beneficial either to the health of the individual or to wider society.

I'm sure someone will be along shortly (possibly you) to tell me you'd prefer not to have to deal with people.

But there is a huge amount of evidence that this is bad for your health. It also doesn't work as a model for the whole of society. You may not think you care about society (as per your other post), but if everyone opts out of society, the social contract breaks down.

There has to be some give and take in the fabric of society, whether you like it or not: some social interaction is built into this. You can choose to opt out of this if you want to, that's your right. But you can't seriously tell me it's beneficial for people to be constantly seeking to minimise social interaction.

On the anxiety point: no one is saying people should force themselves to be 'always on' or to go to social events which make their blood run cold. Not everyone has to be an extrovert. But the longer you opt out of social interaction, the more anxious you will become. Minimising friction in your social environment won't cure your anxiety, it will make it worse.

I go to the library several times a week, go to two specific coffee shops once a week (one enough that they know my drink order automatically), go to my refill green shop so there’s often a lot of small talk throughout my week. I might not have friends I can meet up with but not lacking in socialising.

That mismatch sounds frustrating for you, especially as it sounds like he complains a fair amount. It must be draining. Luckily for me, my DH is very much the same as I am, so we mesh well and have a good understanding of each other so far! Long may it last, haha.

But we are not talking about people who don't want friends. We're talking about people who have convinced themselves that making friends is this hugely daunting, trauma inducing step which they can't make.

Such as the "bitchy school gate mums" threads. People riling themselves up emotionally because they think someone has blanked them at the school gates are not people who don't want friends, they are people who find making friends difficult. If they didn't want friends, they wouldn't worry about this.

And to come full circle to what I was talking about: I'm yet to be convinced why it is so difficult to wave and smile at someone at pickup and possibly go for a coffee with them when you've built yourself a LTR and a family. It just doesn't compute.

Not to my knowledge, no. Why?

Not sure how to link, sorry, it was a poster who had bumped into someone from work while out with her family. The colleague subsequently mentioned (in the office) that she had seen her out with her children and the OP found it "intrusive" that the colleague had mentioned her family. And then refused to talk at all about her family in any context and said she didn't want to engage in any aspect of her personal life with people at work.

I can understand not wanting to share sexual preferences or details about hobbies with people at work but being offended that someone knows you have children seems extreme.

I can’t imagine facing the menopause/empty nest years without friends. My husband of decades is wonderful, but the shared experience of female friends is priceless, esp now the kids have left home.

Well, as I said, romantic relationships and platonic friendships are entirely different beasts, with different rules, structures, expectations, and rewards. One can be good at attaining one, and not the other.

You might as well start a thread asking why so many people who have lots of friends are still single and consider initiating romance so scary, and saying you just can't understand it.

As for those threads, I imagine they're the same people who are always falling out with extended family, and have dramatic, soap opera relationships. Also, some of them seem like engagement bait and fictional. Additionally, there's an element of selection bias, in that people aren't going to post to say they had a nice coffee with one of the mums from the school gate - they only post when there's an issue.

Such as the "bitchy school gate mums" threads. People riling themselves up emotionally because they think someone has blanked them at the school gates are not people who don't want friends, they are people who find making friends difficult. If they didn't want friends, they wouldn't worry about this.

This is just assertions based on making assumptions that don't necessarily follow.

It seems to me you have made a few theories about stuff without necessarily considering other people's approaches and experiences and understandings may differ, OP.

It seems to me there’s a lot of pre-empting of rejection, and people who don’t want to try to make friends because they assume no-one will want to be friends with them. Easier to cut to the chase and not bother.

Rejection is unavoidable. Some people will reject you, for a variety of reasons. Others might surprise you.

It took me two years to make “mum” friends and even now we’re not best mates; we’re just friendly, have a chat if we cross paths, and have a group night out occasionally (that all mums are invited to). I really had to put myself out of my comfort zone to do it.

Well you asked the question - about why it is difficult to make friends.
Introversion is a word I used in attempting to explain my answer.
You can dismiss the word and the theory, but it is the best word I have to explain why I find it exhausting to 'just go for coffee' with someone.

I’m one of those women who you’re targeting in this post. I use “targeting”, as it does feel like that.

I’ve always had trouble making lasting friendships. I’m friendly with people but it’s situation specific and when the situation changes, I find those friendships difficult to maintain.

My husband made the effort at the beginning and we clicked. Fortunately, it’s stuck. I don’t know why that worked and friends haven’t lasted.

I try to make friends. I do invite people for coffee. I try to speak to people at work, and at groups. I accept invitations. It very rarely develops past an awkward few minutes of chat. I don’t know what to say to people. I show interest, ask questions and get no return. I’m fairly certain that I’m must be unlikeable, beyond surface interaction. I don’t know why.

It has always seemed like everyone else has the key to this magical world of friends and I don’t. Fortunately, my husband seems to like me.

Perhaps consider being kinder to those you see on the outside of the group. Those of us who are awkwardly hanging there, trying to join in. (Although I must say that you don’t come over as being very nice or kind in this post so perhaps I wouldn’t want to be friends with you anyway.)

No, we all have to force ourselves out there to create a society for ourselves.

For reasons he explains in his book (I'm only part way through it). Defeating the far-right comes into it somehow, but then he is a politician.

You seem so intensely focused on all this, and that's supposed to be a feature, often an advantage, of a neurodiverse mind. Furthermore you don't seem able to grasp that making friends isn't necessarily comparable to romantic success. It's as if you have certain 'rules' in your mind as to how both are achieved and are unable to look beyond them.

@OtterlyAstounding

Well, as I said, romantic relationships and platonic friendships are entirely different beasts, with different rules, structures, expectations, and rewards. One can be good at attaining one, and not the other.

I just completely disagree with this, sorry. You can't have a good romantic relationship without an underpinning friendship.

And I don't agree that the "rules, structures, expectations and rewards" are different.

One involves sex and (usually) monogamy and can involve children, and the other doesn't. But the foundation of the relationship should be the same.

It’s easiest thing in the world to get a boyfriend. Just exist and they will ask you out. I’d like it if friends were that forward.

Maybe I am ND: I've never been diagnosed (and I'm not going to get around to it now so we'll probably never know) but it's perfectly possible. I don't think intense focus is necessarily only the preserve of the neurodiverse, though.

I also don't agree, as stated multiple times, that making friends and romantic success are completely different processes. There are differences, but at heart, both are built on intimate relationships and I still think if you can build one you can build the other.

I am wondering if I am ND, too! It's always thrown around these days as an explanation for a lot!

I don't like to self-diagnose myself and it's too late now anyway plus GP waiting lists...

Much of the time with romantic relationships however, the sexual attraction comes first, and the friendship develops over time in a completely different way to a platonic friendship, as a natural extension of the romantic relationship.

So it's very different.

I think it's quite self-evident that the rules (you can't have other partners, but you can have other friends), structures (there's a clear social script for romance, but not friendships), expectations (very clear in romantic relationships, and varied and changeable in platonic friendships), and rewards (romantic relationships = sex, babies, and companionship, platonic friendships = it varies too much to try to list) are different.

I think your inability to understand that people can be different is possibly the real problem here.

It would feel like targeting .... except I find it funny. 🤣 I'm sure you're not unlikeable. I think I'd like you. I know what you mean about the manic key. If you found it you could charge a lot of money to get copies cut 😁. Unless our husbands have terrible taste, we're both OK.

@MustUseAName

Perhaps consider being kinder to those you see on the outside of the group. Those of us who are awkwardly hanging there, trying to join in. (Although I must say that you don’t come over as being very nice or kind in this post so perhaps I wouldn’t want to be friends with you anyway.)

Respectfully, I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not the kind of person who excludes people who are reserved or shy or isolated, sometimes I gravitate towards people like this. I'm definitely not "nice" but I think nice is overrated anyway. If you don't want to be my friend I'm fine with that.

I just find it very incongruous and strange that so many people who have built an intimate relationship with a significant other find it very hard to make friendships.

I've been told endlessly on here that they are two completely different beasts but at heart I think they are (or should be) the same. I'm clearly not going to win some people over though.