AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

[Thepeopleversuswork]

I'm baffled at the number of people on Mumsnet who struggle with the most basic social interactions and find making friends to be traumatic, but have found a life partner to settle down and have kids with.

A significant number of posters on here struggle with friendship or social interaction to various degrees, manifested in the extreme in the declarations that they "hate people", "don't want new friends", find friends to be too much "drama" and only want to spend time with their families. There is a classic of the genre running at the moment in which an OP has taken umbrage at a coworker making fairly mild friendly overtures to her as a gross invasion of her privacy. (But admits that she met her partner at work?) Or just at the milder end of the spectrum the huge amount of anxiety which making new friends seems to generate.

I genuinely don't understand why people who have managed to find an intimate relationship in which to have children can find the prospect of exchanging words outside the school gate or sending a text to a coworker so traumatic.

I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends. But texting someone (platonically) to ask if they want to have a coffee seems to spiral posters into paroxysms of self-doubt. The "school mum" threads are a whole sub-genre in their own right, where the paranoia and suspicion is often seriously irrational.

Why do people find it relatively easy to find a partner but finding friends so difficult? From my perspective it should be the other way around.

Controversial opinion but from what I’ve seen in threads on MN, the bar for positive contribution to the relationship is often considerably lower for a partner than it would be for a friend.

I think you need to find something else to wonder about, surely? 😅

Agreed

I have actually thought about this quite a lot, so ND/ social anxiety etc aside...

I think they are really different things even though on the surface they are similar. The "rules" around developing a romantic relationship are somewhat clearer - there's an accepted progression and to an extent we are driven by a subconscious desire to procreate. Friendships are much more fluid/varied in their intensity and hard to define. A romantic partnership is also typically a 1-1 interaction/ exclusive/ primary relationship where you don't have to navigate the dynamics of a wider group/ that person's other relationships and priorities.

I think some of it can also be circumstance - some people end up in places where they find it difficult to find their tribe or find that friendship groups are already very established/ long standing. Some people are just not really open to new friendships, especially at life stages where they are overwhelmed with young kids and work so if you move geographically at that life stage and have to start again, that's tough. Part of the answer to "how can they find a partner but not make friends? " is likely to be timing - they probably met their partner some time ago when they also had friends, but now life has moved on to a stage where it's harder to meet new people and make friends.

Overall though, women are still better than making and maintaining friendships than men - more men have no friends than women and particularly in middle to later age. I think also how men define friends is looser so the gap is likely wider than published.

I have struggled with making /keeping friends at various different points in my life, usually due to physical relocation (Iv'e relocated three times), changing jobs, friends moving abroad, and sadly me having breast cancer - some "friends" disappeared. So life circumstances, and the frantic busy lifestyles everyone seems to lead these days, can disrupt friendships and then make you lose confidence about finding new friends.

I absolutely agree though that friendships require effort, and its too easy to not put that effort in.

This isn't my experience at all. I think there's so much more ambiguity in a romantic relationship than a friendship.

Does he fancy me?
Does he have other romantic attachments?
Does he see me as a serious partner vs a fling?
What does he like sexually?

You can explore this when you get to the point of dating seriously but no one talks about this in the early stages.

Versus a friendship: yes there's no "standard", but it doesn't matter. It's a friendly interaction which may be serious or less serious. Why does it have to be defined?

Why? It's a discussion thread, you can wonder about whatever you like.

Autistic person here. I don't build friendships easily but I do have a core group of absolutely amazing women which seems to be expanding year on year. And I know "if you met one autistic person, you met one autistic person" but I still maintain that autism does not fully explain this phenomenon. If one managed to get through their school years and working life having interacted with humans, however superficially, they should at least have some friends and some social skills to continue meeting people throughout their lives.
So the way I see this, there are multiple complex factors at play

• Internalised misogyny. Women's place is still in the kitchen, metaphorically speaking. While there are fewer men insisting that their wife assumes all responsibility for the household and the family, there is still intrinsic guilt when a woman steps out of the house, returns to work or god forbid, has a hobby. An added bonus is the belief that a man is incapable of raising children, that mother somehow knows best even though we are not born with a child-raring manual pre-installed on our operating system. It's a skill and men are capable of learning this skill.
• Unrealistic expectations about friendships. I see it time and time again on MN people having strange demands on their friends - call every day, answer my message within 12h, have deep intense conversations, make sure there is an equal give and take. People examine forensically how many times someone suggested meeting or how many times they were asked about their kids and they are constantly get advice to "drop this friendship" even if there is a slightest imbalance. The reality is that most people in your life will be acquaintances, most conversations will be superficial and that's what forms the biggest part of your social circle. If you struggle with this idea, friendship is a non-starter. With your closest dearest friends, who cares who makes the most effort?! All I know is that if I call my friend, they will answer and we will have a great time. What does it matter if I may be the only one who calls?
• General lack of communication skills. All this not opening the door when someone comes, not picking up the phone unless there's been a prior text arrangement to call. Honestly, I don't even see a lot of people smile at the checkout person in a shop. I've lived in my area just shy of 4 months and while I don't have any local friends I know the name of the guy in a local DIY store branch and of the security guy in Lidl, have a regular chat with a young boy who does Evri delivery in my area, my neighbors and their kids, two trainers in my gym and three ladies at the vets reception. And I am as introverted as they come and, may I remind you, I have autism so small talk is not my strongest suit.

There are probably a lot more factors that I am missing. These were just my immediate observations. Ultimately, I think some people actively choose this friendless life and use their family as proxy. Which doesn't seem healthy for everyone concerned.

I know men who have abandoned all their friends when they had kids - or only stayed in touch with the ones who also had kids, so the two families could spend time together. It's definitely not just a female thing. Then they and their partner find themselves alone with each other, little left in common, when the kids have flown the nest. In some cases the desire for children was possibly all they really had in common to begin with.

You can get a man by being pretty, even if your personality isn't great. Not so with friends.

I agree, OP, you see it a lot. What you also see are really odd and unrealistic expectations of friendships.

There seems to be a line of reasoning that suggests that if friends “aren’t there for you at 3am”, then the friendship isn’t worth having.

I have several long standing friendships which are, in essence, superficial. We enjoy each other’s company, meet up, have a laugh about life, work, TV, the news, etc, and then don’t see each other for another month bar the odd text. I have friends who I see even less than that.

Also people who have an existential crisis if someone drifts out of their life. It’s totally normal for this to happen. Sometimes they drift back in, sometimes you never see them again. It’s not a basis for soul searching and acrimony.

Finally those who deeply overthink it all. Analyse everything. I just want to shake them. Just go with the flow, stop investing so much thought into something which whilst it can take effort to put yourself out there, should happen naturally.

I had no intention of making friends with my longest standing friends. We just met, and it developed from there, over years, not a few weeks.

I've seen this a lot too and agree totally

There's a lot of sexism on this thread. Of course men can be that way as well. I know several who have nobody or very few people, and cut themselves right off.

I've given up trying to make friends as all my former friends are either dead or have moved away. I'll talk to people and be pleasant (I hope), but there's no point in having a friendship with anyone as that never ends well for me.

Just to add to all of this it's obvious that society has changed a lot. the internet, covid, social media etc, everything so expensive making going out harder. it's much easier to sit at home online these days. people are less sociable because of it. Think of it as a societal issue rather than putting the blame at people's feet.

I am also baffled by this.
Marriage seems much harder to me than saying " fancy a coffee?".

I'm genuinely struggling to think of any.

And I've never known a man to be upset at not making parent friends at the school gate either.

Sounds like me! Met my husband when we were in high school and we had our first child at 16. Haven’t had an actual friend apart from him my entire life even in primary school I was a loner.

I went through a stage of trying to make mum friends most were a lot older than me and had more interesting lives and just didn’t really want to know me beyond exchanging pleasantries.
I tried befriend other younger mothers but they all seem to have anger issues and trying to have a conversation with them was like walking from a minefield.

A school teacher told my mother she thought I had Asperger’s syndrome so might be because of that

There are many reasons let’s be honest! There are some people who have struggled all through life and unfortunately adulthood doesn’t make that easier always, as people are busy/have friendships already/or are downright averse to meeting new friends like that other thread!

I settled down young (16) and married young, had DC. But I knew I needed to make the effort to maintain friends! Has it been easy? No! Absolutely not and at times downright hard juggling it all and still being a present mum and working FT. I have a very supportive partner. I will actively encourage my DC to make sure they have good networks if they are able.

I will say, this is all very different for ND people though, as there are other barriers.

I read these threads with my jaw dropping. Paragraphs of how lonely they are, then mention of a DH and DC. Well i know you can be lonely in a relationship, but it's very different to the loneliness of being entirely alone. As someone whose DH died quite young believe me. Most of my friends are still in couples and their weekends are reserved for family and partner time. So their friends have to be squeezed around the margins at their convenience and are not a priority. I need more single friends lol.

It takes a long time to build up genuine, lasting friendships. Often they can become neglected and fall by the wayside unless you put in effort to keep in touch while working, raising a family etc.

Then as you get older a lot of people already have their longstanding friends, and simply don't have the time or need to socialise with new friends.

It is to do with a limited amount of time for women I think. Like it or not, women carry more load in a family - be it with children or elderly parents. Before having my own family and children I did not feel guilty about going to Paris for a week-end with my girlfriends, and neither did they. But when you have children and your parents grow older I could not say 'well, I shall just swan off somewhere for the week-end with my friends' because you have clubs and you can't do it during the week because after work there is homework and you need to work late because you took a day off to take your dad for a scan during the week.

I find it really sad that so many young mums are lonely 🙁 I'm 55 and can honestly say that having female friends has been such a wonderful thing, they have got me through some really tough times (and I them, hopefully!) I love my husband of 37 years very much and adore my children but having close friends has enriched my life.

Relationships break down and children grow up and leave home but a good friendship can last a lifetime. It can be hard to sustain in the thick of childrearing, busy lives, jobs etc but it's worth investing the time and effort in my opinion.

Male centred-ness. Some women are very, very forgiving of their male partners' transgressions while holding other women - (potential) friends - up to much higher expectations socially.

I have been going for solo weekends in Paris for 25 years even with two kids. DH and I took it in turns.
I don't have elder care responsibilities yet. But I think it's very important to kerp up friends and hobbies.