To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

[FuadaFan]

Now it is a drama about how the Israeli security services deal with the conflict but it is apparently pretty accurate and is amazingly well produced and acted.

Season 5, which covers Oct 7th has just come out after a long delay.

I've had to take a break after episode 7 because it's so distressing but it still doesn't even come close to what happened that day.

I think it's gives a clearer idea as to the truth of what has been going on and it does try to give a perspective from both sides.

I think every pro-Palestinian should watch it.

AIBU?

Here’s the wiki take on one of the makers of the film NAZA:

At 19, Abraham was enlisted and assigned to the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)'s Intelligence Corps, but he never assumed his role; after a week in training, he refused to serve for political and personal reasons and decided to leave the army. The process of leaving took a few weeks, during which he was assigned to be a quartermaster in the Israeli Air Force. After leaving the military, he did volunteer work with Israeli and Palestinian children at schools for two years.[5]

The accusations of rape stand as does the reporting until Israel can show otherwise in its proposed lawsuit.

"This threat, similar to one made last year, is part of a well-worn political playbook that aims to undermine independent reporting and stifle journalism that does not fit a specific narrative. Any such legal claim would be without merit."

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c9wedpk155jo

Yep does look like he couldn't cut it, doesn't it.

Obviously able to have his twisted views from the safety of knowing his fellow countrymen will pick up his slack.

Without the IDF, and the brave men and women risking their lives in it, he may not have been alive to spread his crap.

Yep does look like he couldn't cut it, doesn't it.

It says “he refused to serve for political and personal reasons and decided to leave the army”

Do you believe refusing to kill innocent women and children because of their ethnicity makes someone less of a man?

Just to be clear, are you calling everyone on this thread who believes that the IDF commit rapes of Palestinians “dumb”?

Dang it. I meant research not reason.

You haven’t answered this question @FuadaFan

Would you care to answer it? I’d be very interested to hear your view on this.

The IDF don't target innocent women and children so I doubt agreeing to is part of the enlistment process and he certainly wouldn't have been involved in any operations targetting terrorists in his first week!

For IDF intelligence officers, particularly those in the elite Havatzalot program, basic training (Tironut) typically lasts about four months, similar to standard combat soldiers, before transitioning to specialized and officer courses.
Duration of Basic Training
All IDF soldiers, including those heading into intelligence roles, begin with basic combat training, which generally spans approximately four months and culminates in a final march and swearing-in ceremony
During this period, soldiers develop foundational military skills such as:
Physical fitness and endurance
Military discipline and routines
Field navigation and field exercises
Weapons handling and shooting
Basic combat and self-defense principles
First aid and ABC (atomic, biological, chemical) defense procedures
.
Intelligence Officer-Specific Training (Havatzalot Program)
For cadets selected for the Havatzalot Program, basic training is embedded within a longer, multidisciplinary three-year program combining academic studies and military training

Military training: Includes extended basic training at Nitzanim and an officers’ course at Bahad 1 to familiarize cadets with the army and Army Intelligence (Aman).
Academic training: Parallel studies at Hebrew University in Middle Eastern studies and a second major (mathematics, philosophy, computer science, or economics).
Intelligence training: Focuses on collection, data analysis, and research exercises within different intelligence units.
Leadership and moral training: Cadets manage everyday aspects of the training facility, gaining hands-on leadership experience.
Although the overall Havatzalot program spans three years, the initial four-month basic combat training serves as the entry point, grounding cadets in essential soldiering skills before advanced specialization

Havatzalot/Intelligence officers: Begin with the same ~4-month basic training, then progress to officer courses and intelligence specialization over the following up to three years.

So you're saying the IDF are racist in that they target Arab terrorists, including Palestinian and Lebanese terrorists, because they are the ones attacking Israel?

Pretty sure they haven't been killing the 2.1 million Arab citizens of Israel.

Did you not know Palestinians aren't an ethnicity?

Yes

Also with regards to this - It says “he refused to serve for political and personal reasons and decided to leave the army”

In Israel, military conscription is mandatory under the Defence Service Law for most Jewish citizens. Men serve 32 months, women 24 months, followed by reserve duties. Exemptions exist primarily for specific categories: Haredi Jews (historically), Arab citizens (except Druze and Circassians), medical or psychological reasons, and other personal or family circumstances

Legal Grounds for Refusal
While Israel allows conscientious objection, it is strictly regulated. Full objection based on unqualified pacifism may qualify for exemption, usually after committee review and sometimes brief imprisonment. Selective refusal—e.g., agreeing to serve except in occupied territories—is considered illegal under Israeli law

Conscientious objectors are known as sarvanim (“refuseniks”). They can be court-martialled and sentenced to repeated short prison terms until discharged

Applications for exemption: Possible for medical, psychological, or deeply held conscientious objections, typically requiring approval from IDF committees

Consequences of refusal: Prison sentences (10–21 days or longer for repeated refusals), public censure, possible difficulties in employment in Israel where military service is valued

Military defiance is a punishable offense, but repeated conscientious objection can result in eventual discharge if refusal is sustained courageously.

So explains why he hates the IDF and had to go into film making.

Lucky him that anti Israel funders paid him to promote anti Israel propaganda.

The IDF don't target innocent women and children

The IDF kill innocent women and children. Tens of thousands of women and children. I have posted the figures.

The fact that you find this irrelevant and of no concern, and can’t imagine why someone might not want to do it says it all really.

I have no idea why you have spammed a load of stuff about IDF training on the thread or what you think it contributes to the discussion.

The excerpts cited include claims regarding national and military strategy that are clearly beyond the knowledge of junior-level soldiers. There are references to situations in which IDF Intelligence Directorate soldiers, who were allegedly interviewed for the film, by definition would not have been involved. There is also an incorrect use of legal terminology by individuals who are not legal professionals, as well as internal and absurd contradictions, such as the claim that unintended harm resulting from lawful attacks was carried out deliberately or constituted part of “genocide,” without understanding the meaning of these terms.

This is essentially saying that soldiers, or indeed anyone without legal training, should not speak out about human rights abuses or was crimes committed by an army. Do you agree with this

Of course anyone can speak out but if they are not prepared to verify their allegations by identifying themselves so it can proven that they DID indeed have access to the knowledge they say they have, under normal parameters they wouldn't be taken very seriously, but this is about Israel so normal parameters don't apply.

You deny the IDF are racist? Do I need to post a load of articles and videos showing racism from the IDF?

Did you not know Palestinians aren't an ethnicity?

One can be racist to people of a different ethnicity to oneself even if the people one is racist to are not all of one ethnicity. Did you not know that?

Can I ask if you consider Ben Gvir to be not racist @FuadaFan ?

You were the one who posted about Abraham refusing to serve for personal and political reasons, and that was because he was refusing to kill innocent women and children.

I was responding to that.

As you are so obviously hard of understanding, I will explain a bit more clearly.

He couldn't just 'refuse to serve'. Military service is mandatory for non-religious Jews. I then gave information to explain this.

The fact he actually enlisted rather then refused to enlist which would have had the same penalties as refusing to serve, points to something else going on other than 'refusing to kill innocent women and children' as he would have been years away from conducting any operations, as he enlisted as an intelligence officer, not in a combat role.

Every army in history has killed women and children when at war sadly.

Do you think the reason a higher proportion were killed in this war has anything to do with Hamas using them as human sacrifices to 'fuel the resistance', deliberately using them as human shields while providing no civilian defence at all, and the global community effectively condoning this by not putting any pressure on Egypt to allow safe passage for refugees?

I do.

Not that I believe the actual breakdown of the demographic of the death toll provided by Hamas though, although I believe a higher amount of women and children died because that was Hamas's specific strategy to create global condemnation and hatred of Israel.

I also believe those who have gone along with it are complicit.

You didn't answer that question in bold.

Palestinians are Arabs just in case you are confused.

A national identity does equate to an ethnicity.

No, I don't think the IDF are racist. They undoubtedly have a prejudice to Arab terrorists and their supporters though. What kind of 'ist' do you call that?

Can't make head or tail of your last sentence. Looks to me like you're trying too hard and getting in a mess.

Nighty night.

I don't think people are going to start supporting genocide because of a TV show

The live article remains unedited and fully accessible in the The New York Times Digital Archive.

One can be racist to people of a different ethnicity to oneself even if the people one is racist to are not all of one ethnicity. Did you not know that?

Can't make head or tail of your last sentence. Looks to me like you're trying too hard and getting in a mess.

I will try for clear up your confusion.

Do you believe the apartheid regime in South Africa was racist? I’m going to assume you do but do correct me if I’m mistaken.

White South Africans were racist towards black South Africans because black SAs were a different ethnicity to them. Whether black SAs are a distinct ethnicity or not, or are from a number of different ethnicities is irrelevant to the fact that they experienced racism from white SAs because they were not the same ethnicity as white SAs.

Not that I believe the actual breakdown of the demographic of the death toll provided by Hamas though, although I believe a higher amount of women and children died because that was Hamas's specific strategy to create global condemnation and hatred of Israel.

The Guardian:

Israel accepts health authorities’ Gaza death toll is broadly accurate, saying 70,000 have died ^^

Israel’s military has accepted the death toll compiled by health authorities in Gaza is broadly accurate, marking a U-turn after years of official attacks on the data.

A senior security official briefed Israeli journalists, saying about 70,000 Palestinians had been killed by Israeli attacks on the territory since October 2023, excluding those missing.

Gaza health authorities said the direct toll from Israeli attacks had exceeded 71,660 people, with at least 10,000 presumed buried in the rubble of bombed buildings.

For more than two years, Israeli officials and media had attacked the Palestinian figures as “Hamas propaganda” and dismissed them as “not accurate”.

It is also likely to intensify scrutiny of civilian casualties in Gaza. The Israeli military previously claimed to have killed 22,000 militants in Gaza, suggesting that, by its own count, more than two-thirds of the 70,000 dead were non-combatants.

That figure is significantly below the 83% civilian toll indicated by a classified Israeli military database, but well above the 50% casualty rate previously claimed by Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

Israeli attacks on Gaza health authorities ignored a long track record of reliable record-keeping. During past wars in Gaza the final toll recognised by Israel and observers including the UN was broadly in line with Palestinian data.

The Palestinian database does not provide a breakdown of fighters and non-combatants. It does identify most of the dead by name, date of birth and Israeli-issued identity numbers.

To pre-empt possible ‘confusion’ on your part, no, this article does not say that Israel accepts the demographic breakdown of the figures. But it says they accept the overall figures, with which are provided name, date of birth and Israeli-issues identity numbers of the 70,000 dead.

If you reject this data, what is your estimate of the demographic breakdown? And where do you get your figures from, or are you basing your estimate on “it’s less women and children than the health authorities in Gaza say”?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/30/israel-military-gaza-death-toll-broadly-accurate

The fact he actually enlisted rather then refused to enlist which would have had the same penalties as refusing to serve, points to something else going on other than 'refusing to kill innocent women and children' as he would have been years away from conducting any operations, as he enlisted as an intelligence officer, not in a combat role.

I don’t think most people would share your view that knowingly providing intelligence used for bombing innocent women and children, for example, is any less killing innocent women and children than firing the weapon that kills them.

Certainly international war crimes legislation doesn’t recognise a distinction.

Mark Perlmutter has a record for outright lying. He most recently jumped on the bandwagon of a story about alleged mass graves of Palestinian women and children outside a hospital in Gaza. The "evidence" was supposed zip ties taken off the bodies.

Only problem: no bodies were ever seen. Not even a trace. The zip ties had still had Hebrew writing and barcodes on them: they'd just been taken off some Israeli products imported into Gaza, photographed and used to fabricate the entire story.

This website gives a useful breakdown. Its based entirely on Hamas run Gaza Health Ministry figures, which reveal over 24,000 of those killed in Gaza were Hamas operatives. Also, they apparently included 10,000 or more natural deaths in that number. Which means... more than half of the supposed civilian casualties were actually people who died naturally or combatants.

https://www.commentary.org/seth-mandel/hamas-debunks-the-genocide-narrative/?edge_reader_page

This seems to be reflecting the common misconception all Israelis are "white people". In actual fact nearly a quarter of the population are Israeli Arabs (not Palestinians, Arabs with Israeli Citizenship). Also, of the Jewish population more than half are descended from Mizrahi and Sephardic Jews who were expelled from Iraq, Algeria, Syria, Morocco, Yemen and other Arab lands. Its not well known, but nearly a million Jews were expelled from Arab countries in the decade or so following WW2.

So yeah- basically 80% of Israelis are not "white people". Palestinians are also not ethnically homogenous: there are blond-haired, blue eyed Palestinians and ginger haired Palestinians who look like they came from Dublin, not Ramallah.