To think this is outrageously irresponsible parenting

[CaffeinatedMum]

On holiday in France at a Eurocamp park. Yesterday I was in the outdoor pool and noticed a little boy maybe around 18 months, certainly no older than a young 2, bobbing around by himself in a float vest. For context my six year old was out of his depth in all of this pool apart from the steps to get in, so it wasn’t a toddler type splash pool.

I watched him for a minute as he didn’t seem to have anyone with him and then both me and another lady went up to him to ask him where his mummy or daddy was, obviously he didn’t reply as was very young. Led him to the steps and his older sister came rushing up to him, I can’t imagine she was more than five (considerably smaller than my six year old).

Long story short, the parents were watching the kids from the bar nearby with their friends. This isn’t a pool bar and they weren’t in swimwear. it’s the other side of a gate and foot bath. So yes you can see the kids but you’re a fair distance away, not just on a lounger next to it,

They absolutely fell about with laughter when their son was helped out of the pool.

I genuinely can’t believe how irresponsible this parenting was… I am assuming I will get a unanimous YANBU but obviously there are parents out there who think this is not only ok but funny.

Now kicking myself for not saying anything to them about it but didn’t want to cause a scene, they were quite a big intimidating group standing their laughing their heads off.

Tbh even in the UK the police are unlikely to be able to do much.

I did once actually have someone call the police on me for neglecting my children and they just came to our home for a wellbeing check. It was several days later and they just glanced at the children and we exchanged niceties and that was it!

In the UK at least you'd be amazed by the (slightly unreasonable in my opinion) breadth and depth of occupier liability.

You might get away with it if a child is injured or worse on site if the parents were being neglectful but you'd have a much stronger case if you could say, "our staff actually approached the parents and directly warned them of the danger and need to supervise their children" and any manager/ business owner worth their salt would absolutely want their staff to do that and lessen their liability.

Equally, if a member of the public informed the business of the danger of a child but they do nothing about it, they've just increased their liability as they've been made aware of the danger and done nothing to mitigate it; at that point they're much more likely to be partially on the hook if anything happens.

So it is very much worth 'telling teacher' (ideally someone as senior as possible who has some grasp of that, or asking junior to fetch them) as it puts the onus on someone who has the power to require the parents to act, or be asked to leave.

This is terrible but I'm afraid nothing surprises me anymore. I've seen so much poor parenting. I have learned to avoid certain people socially because I end up having to look after their children as well as my own.

@AnotherOneIsntFussed my ‘telling teacher’ comment wasn’t meant in a derogatory way although I can see it may have come across like that. It’s just that generally staff aren’t trained in child protection or preventative measures and working somewhere doesn’t make you responsible for everyone else’s poor decisions. I mean yes, if someone spills a drink and it isn’t mopped up and they slip and fall that’s on you. If some parents are sitting in a cafe and not watching their child and the child wanders off that is not on you, that is different IYSWIM.

I get the pool is maybe more of a grey space because there is a lifeguard but generally they are teens and aren’t going to be telling parents off or making them make better choices.

I am just counterbalancing the advice on these threads which is always ‘tell the staff!’ with a more ‘well you can but they won’t do jack!’ Even the police and social services who actually DO have some power are unlikely to do anything unless there’s clear signs of a pattern of neglect, although it’s always worth passing concerns onto them as it helps build a picture, difficult when you don’t know who they are though of course.

My kids went to a primary school with a brilliant swimming programme. It was brilliant because a little girl died during a swimming lesson, the teacher and lifeguard didn't spot her on the bottom of the pool till it was too late. It was devastating for the teachers, the one supervising the lesson left.

what??

Well lifeguards should be telling parents off. They are there for safety reasons and it's actually a very responsible job. Mt GSs did while in sixth form and university and parents have shouted at them for saving a child, lied about a child being able to swim so they could go in without an adult.

The hotel and parents share legal responsibility for pool safety - that is why hotels always have safety signs around pools.

It is pure neglect. No child that age should be out of arms reach in a swimming pool. There really is a breed of lazy fucker parents who think they can just get pissed on holiday and ignore their own children.

You have to be more vigilant on holiday, not less. Arm bands are not a substitute for parenting.

This.

Holidays in southern France. Saw so many toddlers alone in the water with no parent around. Many were siblings of other children- mostly Asian (northern Africa as they spoke french as well) while parents sat in groups far away talking and eating. I couldn't help thinking that the reason they have so many kids is because they count on losing some due to neglect... I intervened twice but the 2 families said no it's fine- they play.

But if you tell someone, staff and parents, at least you've done something and the responsibility is then firmly passed onto them. Rather than rely on others to act, and no-one does anything.

Which is unlikely as there were clearly other people around, and possibly a lifeguard (although the OP doesn't mention one). Not excusing the parents' behaviour as they are clearly negclectful, stupid and more interested in having a few beers, but this will be their mentality - there are other people who will step in when we cannot/will not.

Not unreasonable at all OP.
If it happens again take child to life guards and say he's unsupervised.

Unfortunately a minority of parents think this is perfectly acceptable. We had it on holiday in Greece, I helped a 3-4 year old after he got stuck submerged with an inflatable ontop of him - his parents were in the bar. The boy was Italian so we told the lifeguard after getting him onto the side the hotel read them the riot act about supervision.

That’s a decision only the individual can make. I personally wouldn’t bother as I know nothing will happen or change.

I absolutely take your point that telling staff is not always going to be effective, unfortunately, but it's certainly worth a try (and, as I say, someone as senior as possible).

Legal responsibility is vanishingly unlikely to fall on the head of the individual staff member you tell, as you say (even if they do nothing and should have) but it may very well fall on the business, which is why speaking to someone senior and having a passing understanding of the possible liability for the business stands the best chance of getting results.

Far from guaranteed, I agree, but always worth giving it a shot in my opinion. At best, it prevents a terrible accident (though you'll never know what would have happened otherwise) and at worst at least if something bad happens you'll know you did what you could.

Ds was about 10 (ish) and a bloody strong swimmer

I was at the side of the pool (heavily pregnant and ghe size of a double decker bus) with his much younger siblings (who where in the buggy)

I turned for a second not noticing as had come up behind us and he slipped and fell in

It was that fast-thankfully the lifeguard got him out and he was fine

I was sat there,watching them closely and in the second it took to pass his brother a drink,he'd fallen in

I've never been so scared in my whole life-thankfully he made a massive splash and the lifeguard got him out as I realised what had happened

How anyone can wander off and leave them is beyond me

My father is a gardener (he does it all the organic way-no chemicals) and part of this is having frogs in his garden

It's not unusual to be at theirs and a frog jumps past

The 'pond' is ds's old baby bath-its not a massive pond but big enough for frogspawn/a handful of frogs

To get to it,you have to walk down to the greenhouse at the bottom of the garden,wade through about 5 feet of nettles and hunt for it (you wouldn't see it until you stood in it)

I never let the dc in that garden without an adult (normally me as my parents would have wandered off)

My parents thought it was overkill and 'it wouldn't happen' (my parents just don't see danger-'it'll be right' is their catchphrase) but it was still a risk-no matter how small

Not a chance would I have left them to be near water on their own-and it still happened with me next to him

There were lifeguards but they were pretty hopeless to be honest, I definitely wouldn’t have trusted them to keep my kids safe

No, because you are a responsible parent. Those other people saw the lifeguards and decided to put the responsibility onto them. And other people around the pool.

I was walking along a street when I heard a young child screaming in fear, I expected to hear an adult reply to him but didn’t so I kept listening out and he was screaming over and over ‘I’m all alone! I’m all alone!’ . I started looking for him and saw him leaning half body out of a car window, looking blind panicked with fear, and screaming that sentence over and over. He looked four at most, maybe three. So I went to speak with him and help him calm down, and I was there talking with him for a good ten minutes. I had just decided to call the police, as I had my own child I needed to pick from nursery, when his mum finally showed up, not a care in the world and asked me if I knew him from school (!), and then when I explained the situation acted like her son was the daft one for being scared! This was a wealthy women in an expensive car, in an affluent area. What had happened was she wanted to go to the shops, her young child had just woken up, had said he didn’t want to go to the shops, so she had left him there as if a sleepy 3/4 year old had made an informed choice! She had a much older child with her too, so it wasn’t like she was a first time parent. Her utter lack of guilt or recognition she had done anything wrong was sickening. Anyone could have quickly pulled that child through the car window and taken him. And even without that, he was completely terrified.

That’s a ridiculous view. Joe Bloggs challenges their parenting and child safety-they know it’s just an opinion. A member of staff does it the offending parents can be told to leave and loose their holiday

This is very similar to another thread on here recently. What’s with all these parents on holiday leaving their kids to drown, get lost or be abducted??

Something was happening to her, she was being emotionally abused by her parents. That poor child.

A few days ago I was at the supermarket, picking up a trolley just outside, when I noticed a toddler standing alone on the curb next to a car that was pulling away. The car drove out of the space and a little way along in front of the store, with the toddler watching it and calling out to her mother, who was in the passenger seat, looking out the window at her child and smiling. The car stopped then, the woman opened the door to ask the child to come to her. The little one then ran away laughing towards the store, so parents had to get out of the car and grab her.
Why you would leave a toddler in a car park and drive away (no matter how short the distance)? I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, and I’m shocked that there’s a whole thread full of similar and worse.

Exactly - what is the alternative? To watch someone else's child for ages until the parent finally turns up? What if you're trying to watch your own children? If you make staff aware, then at least there's a chance that SOMEONE is watching the poor child if you get up and go inside or have to attend to your own children.

Obviously, taking the child to its parents is the first recourse, but quite often you don't know who or where they are.