Would this family estrangement raise a red flag?

[Wicked123]

My friend has been in a relationship for over five years and they have two DC (age 3 and 1). Her partner has two children from a previous marriage, age 16 and 11. They both have good jobs and are comfortably off.

He is completely estranged from his Mum, sister and brothers and all his nieces and nephews. He gives no concrete reason other than his mum is “difficult” and they love drama.

His family all get on well together- go away on holiday together, Christmas, birthdays etc. they also all get on well with his ex wife so his older kids spend time with them regularly and speak very highly of them.

This doesn’t seem like a dysfunctional, fractured family, he is the only one estranged. His father passed away years ago, before the estrangement.

Mu friend believes his sister and possibly one brother too have reached out to him but he shrugged it off when she asked him and evades the question.

He’s made no effort to introduce his younger children to any of his side of the family and my friend has never met any of them.

Would this be a red flag for you?

Yes

Yep

There are usually two sides to every story.

But yes it would seem to be a red flag, but equally I can’t understand your friend never delving into it and getting answers before committing to someone not having an inkling why he chose to cut them off.

No not necessarily. From the outside you will never know what the family truly is like. Many families can play happy families for onlookers and it can be all swell if you play by their rules. Maybe he just doesn't want to play their games anymore. Its a big thing to cut family out and most people try for years to avoid that. I wouldn't assume there is no valid reason and he just cut them off on a whim.

Surely in 5 years they have had more in depth conversations about it? In 5 years are their any other red flags or behaviour that concerns her?

Yes I would be concerned. I would suspect something sexual.

Yes, I have one sibling who is estranged, blames it all on their upbringing.

same upbringing as everyone else however they are an addict, a liar and a chief manipulator hence why they are estranged from the whole family.

I would say the red flag is the shrugging it off and avoiding the conversation. Regardless of valid reasons that's how he handles uncomfortable conversations or avoids opening up. You can't get true connection and intimacy with someone who puts walls up.

Personally I would have wanted a lot more detail about such a radical estrangement before developing a long term relationship with this man.

Does he have long term (eg from childhood) friends who know his family? I’d be concerned if not.

Not really. My friend has met one cousin, and she was nice but she’s also in touch with the rest of the family and gets on well with them all. No long term friends, more just work colleagues .

Why are you assuming he is in the wrong . I’m in the same situation , my sil has destroyed my relationships with friends and family and as I’m housebound and disabled . Well you can imagine what it’s like . I totally depend on my DH and if he believed the crap that my family spout , I’d be dead. Which actually would suit them.

The difference here is that his family have never tried to bad mouth him, they’ve just stayed silent, they don’t appear to have any desire to ruin the life he’s made for himself but they wish they could meet his new children. He cheated on his first wife so he’s not of great character.

Depends.
If they're the golden children and he's the scapegoat, fed up of the triangulation, then he may well have said enough now.
If he is avoidant and/or neurodivergent, he may well have played along until he wanted peace.
Not really your business unless your friend is being isolated from you or has expressed concerns.
I've both been estranged and done the estranging. They're both shit. We don't all get the curated FB insta family. Sometimes we have toxic dynamics and have to step back.
Social media will scream narcissist within these complex dysfunctional relationships - at parent or at child - when often fractures come from repetition of intergenerational trauma.
And just because this guy appears to be the lone wolf in the scenario, doesn't necessarily mean he's the main cause of catalyst - just that he has chosen to walk away from it.

He cheated on his wife and they all stayed close to her and the children, he would have preferred them cut off so he could move on seamlessly to his new family, hence cutting them all off. ..that's my guess

Wow, I never thought of it like that but I genuinely think you could be on to something there!!!!

From what you know I’d imagine this has come about due to him cheating on his first wife.
it’s interesting that the family want to ‘meet the children’.
my DP is estranged- very much a last resort and something not done lightly. I’d imagine there’s very few estranged adult children who have become estranged lightly.
this post just goes to show there’s such a stigma around family estrangement. The older I get the more families I meet that are dealing with something similar.

Honestly it is impossible to tell but I have to wonder why you and not your friend is worried about this.

Families are complex. On the surface to an outsider my family growing up looked picket fence. It was far from it. You honestly can never tell and yes it could be on his side but that is for your friend to worry about.

No because some families are completely awful. I wouldn’t say I’m “estranged” from mine but I definitely don’t go out of my way to spend time with them. I dodged my only brother’s wedding because he only invited me to the evening party which I found incredibly offensive. I don’t go to family gatherings at all. My mum decided not to tell me she’d invited half the family over one Christmas because she knew I wouldn’t come if she did. I turned up, walked in the room and left.

I don’t like my family. They’re toxic. I grew up in an abusive household with DV and addiction and felt nobody protected me or had my back. I’ve moved on with my life and done well without them. Maybe I’m an arsehole but I don’t really care. When you spend your childhood in that sort of atmosphere, being beaten and emotionally neglected it’s safe to say as an adult you do all you can to keep your inner peace.

You don’t know what happened to this guy and to be frank, it’s none of your business anyway.

Given that your friend has already had two children with this man, presumably for her it isn't a red flag, and that's the main thing that matters here. She already knows he cheated on his previous partner and she was happy to go ahead and have two kids with him knowing that. It's really up to her, isn't it? It doesn't matter whether it would be an issue for you, or for any of us.

I wouldn't find the estrangement a red flag in itself. I'd be suspicious of his refusal to talk about it.

It sounds to me as if the family took the ex-wife's side during the split. I wouldn't take the fact that the rest of the family are close or the fact that they haven't talked about him (not sure how anyone actually knows this - presumably neither he nor his girlfriend are monitoring his estranged family's communications with others) as being particularly meaningful. Sometimes 'close' can mean 'unhealthily enmeshed and codependent' and one person finds that unbearable and escapes.

It really all just depends on precise circumstances; there are situations where it would be a red flag and situations where it wouldn't.

It could be that something has happened but just because they appear close does not mean all may be as it seems.
I have had people tell me my family seem a really nice family because they do days out, holidays, birthdays and christmas celebrations together. The reality is childhood was really abusive and they are enmeshed and the days out and holidays are extremely dysfunctional with constant arguments, bullying amongst each other and being abusive to each other. People outside don't know this though. Your friend maybe does know the reason behind it, it's just she hasn't told you.

I have a friend who is like this I used to think red flag until my friend cut all of her family out. Her Dad died but the lead up to her Dad passing away was truly awful and I personally witnessed how her Mum behaved towards her and her husband. She was rude, aggressive and manipulative…to outsiders the family all came together and were a loving family they weren’t, they just painted this to the outside world. I was lucky enough to know my friend and her family so they used to say things without thinking when I was around particularly as we got older but once my friend started speaking to her half sister from her Dads (no affairs Dad was married to someone else before her Mum) side all hell broke loose with her Mum’s side of the family.

When the died Dad on the day of the funeral the Mum had told the family on her side to go to the house none of the Dads side of the family knew and went to the original Wake venue. It was only when one of the Dads cousins who had travelled far arrived at the venue and said they were not taking sides that’s when my friend found out what was going on. Many other things had happened before and after my friends Dads passing mainly to do with her brother and the family believing his constant lies.

It broke my friend and it’s only recently she is recovering and doing well after four years. She cut everyone out and when she sees people she just ignores them. So now I’m not as quick to judge, everyone believes the little old frail elderly woman who was the doting wife but in reality she’s one of the nastiest people I’ve ever met and the family are just as bad but to everyone else it’s my friend who is the awful one who abandon her Mum (she has many siblings) and left her to fend for herself.

Talk to them (and really listen I was abit blinded but then started thinking back to certain incidents and realising my friend wasn’t imagining her family’s behaviours) and when they’re ready I’m sure they’ll tell you what’s really going on and then decide for yourself.

How does he (and your friend) get on with his ex wife?

What is his (and your friend's) relationship like with his older DC?

Total estrangement with the whole family for very obscure reasons is a red flag.

The fact his Ex and older DC are still in contact is another red flag.

Both tell me HE is the problem!!

Sorry I had edited with paragraphs but seems to have gone back to original.

This is very amusing as it somewhat relates to us. So my husband and I are estranged from his sister who is VERY close to their brother and parents. We also never got along with his brother’s second ex-wife, who is also very close to SIL (she hated us on her besties behalf). The rest of the family still sees and gets on with second ex-wife.

So, on the surface, the family photo op looks like happy families SIL, ex-SIL, PILs, brother all happy and functional. Meanwhile we’re nowhere to be seen. One time when we were still meet up she even cut us out of a photo she posted of the whole family when us and our children were all on the edge of the photo!

However, not on social media, are their multiple divorces, extra-marital affairs, moving children in (and subsequently out) with new partners, quick pregnancy with partner of a few months. Plus generally being rude and dishonest.

We have a stable and happy home of 15 years with 3 children. You are like the company you keep and no social media campaign can alter reality!

The information I have posted isn’t from social media, it’s from what the older children have said. They love their time with their Nan, their Mum will happily go to family occasions with her ex-in laws. You also need to not assume that every story is like yours. Also we only have YOUR side of the story, I suspect the family would give a very different version !

I was simply trying to show the other side of things. Of course not every story is like ours, but I’d not seen many posts sharing a different perspective? Apologies….

As a parent I will point out that children are typically shielded from family stories. It would be highly inappropriate for our niece to know about her mother’s adultery, for example. And our nephew is far too young to know his mother and father also started as an affair, and that his father has now moved him in with his next affair partner. Children are and should be protected - which means they are able to enjoy all their loved ones.

You’re absolutely right that they have their reasons for all the changes and marriages/partners/children over a short space of time. I’m pointing out different lifestyles may be to blame for estrangement.

EDIT to add: We still see PIL very regularly and BIL occasionally so from the outset the comparison was never intended to be exact!