DD overdose. The system is broken? Any advice?

[BeethovenNinth]

I have posted about DD before. Broken by lockdown, anorexia age 12, school drop out, burn out, self harm extreme. We are five years in.

we have repeatedly been told she doesn’t qualify for help and have tried various therapists ourselves.

she is out of school and self learning. Very lonely. Seems ok recently ot so I thought.

due to intense sadness last night she took an overdose of aspirin. I suspect a cry for help and she phoned childline who got her to phone 111. (She didn’t think to wake any of us). I suspect A and E will just kick us out soon.

we are a loving family but this is a huge setback.

we are Edinburgh based, desperate desperate for the right help.

private psychiatrist? Do we suggest sertraline? Anyone in Scotland have any good suggestions?

thanks from a broken mother

Thank you. He’s 14 next week. He’s on the CAMHS waiting list (ahahaha) but has been told it’ll be up to a four year wait.

I have thought for a few years that he has ADHD but it’s now hitting a bit of a crisis point.

I am looking at the private clinic we used for my daughter but unfortunately we got divorced in the interim and things are now financially very difficult, so I don’t know how to possibly finance it.

But how can I look him in the eye and say, your sister was worth it but you are not?

I’m so sad today. I wish at least one of my children found lide and school easy. I look at other ‘normal’ families and am filled with sadness and jealousy. It’s not nice of me I know, but my heart aches for all of us.

I know -ess-. I get it and that same feeling. It’s horrible as you feel envy I guess. But everyone has their shit and it’s so common now. Sadly.

assume ex DH can’t help? Agree it is difficult: keep venting

Yes we still get on very well and we will split the costs 50/50 but it’s hard, I just done have anything to spare and no idea how to find it. Just another thing to add to today’s long list of bollocks.

How is your lovely girl today?

I know ess. My regret is I didn’t chuck more at this when she got sick with anorexia and it’s a long story why we didn’t.

I assume your DS has the basics checked eg iron and vitamin D? I try to do this with DD (myself, privately) and when her iron goes low, due to her heavy periods, her
mood tanks. Same with vitamin D. Plus a decent multi vit. I also
give her B12 and fish oil. It all really helps but I know she is prob anaemic just now as her eating is disordered

GP sees us 1530 as I want to get the melatonin done properly. I think this GP is the only one who has helped - she is lovely and addresses DD as an adult, She slept seven hours and ate eggs for breakfast and is lying on the sun reading a book with the dog. It probably looks like bliss but she was good in the day on Friday and then took an overdose so it makes me cautious. Thanks for asking

@BeethovenNinth just to warn you that I don't think GPs can prescribe melatonin for children (or adults for that matter unless over 55). It has to be prescribed by a psychiatrist and would probably need an ADHD or autism diagnosis and even then I'm not sure that they do it. The psychiatrist who diagnosed DH with ADHD said that it would need to be prescribed by a specialist sleep clinic. Most people just buy it online for their children with ASD/ADHD. I hope I'm wrong as its ridiculous in situations such as your daughter but they are bound by the rules.

In scotland if you go via Sleep Scotland disability team (don't need a specific diagnosis) they can write a letter of recommendation to try melatonin. This was sufficient for my GP to prescribe- he just gave Paedeatrician a call to confirm first.

He actually just got diagnosed with underactive thyroid which isn’t helping with mood and tiredness. I’m going to take him back to the GP anyway just so I have the worsening situation on record really.

When you find a good GP it just feels like the tiniest bit of relief that you’re not going crazy and someone will listen!

ess with thyroid there is quite a lot you can do… hopefully that alone can help shift the needle?

on melatonin I am worried that I won’t get it which is so BONKERS. The psych who saw her Saturday - when she said her panic is non sleep - I feel they could have. But least I am aware.

it is working so well so I shall have to keep buying online for now.

you can buy it OTC throughout Europe

I’m hoping that’s the case but are waiting for a consultant appointment so he’s on the lowest dose of meds right now while we wait for that, so there’s been no improvement yet.

Melatonin was prescribed for us by a paediatrician Before diagnosis. Repeat prescription through GP. Scotland.

GP was fab. She happily gave us the melatonin when I explained it had finally got us sleep. She said it does work for the neurodivergent brain remarkably well. She thought a lot of it was a build up of emotion in DD and exhaustion from lack of sleep: she asked DD if she thought she was autistic to which DD said no and the GP said she just sees so much of this in terms of some neurodivergence, plus trauma plus lockdowns leading to struggling youth but that 99 per cent of the time they bump through.

she said the psych we see Friday is also who she would use and not to bother with chasing CAMhs.

for anyone reading this, you can buy melatonin OTC across Europe.

Brilliant news! I hope that gives her brain a rest and getting some sleep can have a good knock on effect mental health wise.

You can also look at Promethazine for sleep for both you and DD. You can buy it across the counter or ask your GP. It is non-addictive. I actually have to use melatonin and Promethazine to help me sleep due to cPTSD.

I am usually awake sometimes half the night with DD or on a bad night it's all night. It is not conducive to education when your child can't sleep. We are all just in a fight for survival. You have my empathy re: the caregiver and lack of sleep. You can't pour from an empty cup. You might want to look into therapy for yourself also.

The melatonin sometimes helps my DD but if she's wired, it doesn't work alone.

Other things that help DD - she gets restless legs, I've noticed. Her therapist recommended a body sock to add some compression, and a weighted blanket. So we do magnesium cream on her legs and feet (https://amzn.eu/d/036n0VOQ) and then the compression from the body sock on her lower half of her body (she just puts it on from the mid torso downwards) and then weighted blanket on top.

Re: self-harm - there is an app for teenagers, not sure if you know about it:

https://londonwaitingroom.nhs.uk/calm-harm

Also this app (not specifically for children):

https://londonwaitingroom.nhs.uk/distract

Also an online course for children age 10-17:

https://londonwaitingroom.nhs.uk/alumina

This has been our problem. The GP would like to prescribe but can't and the paeds won't see her because she doesn't have ND in their opinion. They know what I wanted - help with her sleep, but won't help. So no one will prescribe. I just had to do what you said and buy it online (as I use it for myself). I will eventually be getting her seen by a private psych.

Thanks gotta I will
take a look at that. Very helpful.

So to update….in case it’s helpful

saw the psych yesterday - privately. I liked and trusted her straightaway (which isn’t my usual stance such has been the medical fuck ups). She is cautious and spent a lot of time discussing the background but freshly. She says she is in no rush for any label nor indeed meds just yet. She described DD as a highly sensitive young girl who then hit lockdown which stalled her development (we are Scotland - schools were closed much longer). My husband had a serious accident in 2021 and lots of issues thereafter and then went into school during masks etc (more trauma) with some violent incidents at school (trauma on top of trauma). We discussed how all DD’s coping strategies - anorexia to bulimia to self harm to the latest - is because this underlying trauma hasn’t been addressed. That can look very like neurodivergence but also needs its separate handling.

so she comes up with a plan for DD of therapy but counselling hasn’t worked so far so let’s see. There will also be nutrition suggested as the years of disordered eating means she runs low in basics such as iron. DH and I are to have a session or two as she picked up we are both a bit broken by it all and we don’t communicate well.

meds maybe will follow in a month or so but I think they aren’t sure how much is the trauma and how much is neurodivergence/anxiety etc

I do feel more positive but know it’s a long road.

Glad that has been such a positive. The care from private psychs was so nuanced and careful compared to the contradictory and often damaging interactions we had within the nhs. Hope it is as helpful for you

Have tried early help? Also stertraline I do rate. For me, it shut off the caveman fight or flight part of my brain. When I wasn't in constant fight or flight I could start packing some trauma away logically. Re ASD. I'm not sure getting a diagnosis is going to be a miracle in itself. There's no medication or cure. You could read up on it and apply all the strategies yourself.

Does she have a ehcp?

Thanks dyslexic early help from when anorexic? Only intensify therapy which by and large hasn’t really been helpful. For the anorexia itself we did the joyful family based therapy which is when you get them to eat at home but doesn’t address the trauma

we don’t have ECHP in Scotland. We have had - literally - nothing.

the days she does stuff - some exercise and fresh air - she sleeps ok. But she is - by her own admission - lazy. It’s frustrating

I think we will try meds in a few months. Although they won’t make her less lazy, they might give the ability to do more as her main issue is crippling loneliness

I’m so sorry you are going through this.

I know I am only offering my perspective after reading what you have said and I’m not the only living through and fully aware of the entire situation. But I think you need to stop focusing on Covid and lockdowns being the cause of all of this. It sounds like she has been through trauma and that’s what needs to be addressed.

I was bullied in school as a teenager. I was left feeling worthless and my self esteem was on the floor. I never told my parents and still to this day I have never spoken about it with them. It had such a major impact on my mental health at the time, but looking back at it now as a 40 something year old woman, I realise it was probably ‘low level’ bullying (not trying to downplay any kind of bullying, but what I mean is that it could have been so much worse). So considering the impact this had on me at the time, I can completely understand how something more traumatic could have such a major impact on a child’s mental health. The impact of the sexual harassment will be major (and was the an isolated incident or repeated).

She’s unlikely to want to talk to her parents about it. I would find someone who specialises in childhood trauma for her to speak to as I think this sounds like the most beneficial solution.

As an aside, I would try to get her involved in a sport. Something active which gets your heart racing (a running club, tennis, hockey etc). Activities like this have been shown to have such a positive impact on mental health and wellbeing and I don’t think we utilise them enough. Things like yoga etc also have their place but don’t have the same impact as those activities that get the heart racing.

I’m so sorry you’re all going through this and I really hope things improve soon

Hello OP, I have an autistic son and daughter both adults now. Son was what you would call loud and proud autism or just very stereotypically autistic. My daughter is nothing like that. She was dx age 2, had I not have already had son and known a lot about autism then I would likely have thought she was the easiest baby and toddler ever born. She never cried, wasn't demanding, just so unbelievably easy which after my son was a huge relief.

She got to Primary school and she was the dream pupil she was able, always well behaved and had plenty of friends. At her leaver's assembly the HT described her as little miss perfect. The autism was pretty unnoticeable at school and home a few quirks like fussy eating and always wanting clothes that covered her from neck to toe.
She started secondary school and the wheels came off quickly. Different classes different teachers, lots of rules, the corridors, everything was overwhelming. My lovely sunny daughter grew increasingly anxious and unhappy. The rules were a huge issue d never broke one but she was hugely empathetic to those who did and felt they were treated too harshly. We did part time timetables, she was increasingly absent as school exhausted her and by 14 she was out of school altogether.
The next couple of years were awful I thought I would lose her, she didn't want to live she just wasn't actively trying to take her life. She started at an independent specialist school, a Steiner one and they put her back together and my sunny girl came back. She learned about herself and her needs and how to prioritise herself. That was vital because now she knows when she needs to step back, say no and take time for herself and that keeps her on an even keel.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that d's autism only really shows itself when the environment is wrong, she is under stress or she is unhappy. Had she not had a dx already the autism wouldn't have been noticed until she fell apart I don't imagine because it really wasn't noticeable during Primary.

Please think really carefully about the 'laziness'. My DS thought of himself as 'lazy'. He was burnt out, hugely anxious, couldn't leave the house - but his internal picture of himself was 'lazy'. The fatigue from the anxiety was incredibly real - we got him a Visible heart rate monitor and his resting heart rate was around 100. It was like he was spending the whole day at a brisk walk. Managing anxiety and panic attacks is also really tiring and spiked his heart rate even higher, so every time he had dinner with us, or had to go to an appointment, the toll on his body was huge - like fast running or hiking up a hill.
His ferritin was also really low - he is still on meds for that.
He then got CMV and mononucliosis - like glandular fever but caused by a different virus. His fatigue was absolutely crippling - he could only sit up for 45 mins before having to rest, but his insomnia persisted. He still just described himself to us as 'lazy' and it was 4 months before we even really investigated it because he was so convinced that it was just that he wasn't trying hard enough.
The Visible was invaluable - the only cure for fatigue is pacing - reducing the amount of time that your heart rate is high. The opposite of what we think of as healthy, which involves pushing yourself and then recovering. The other thing that helps is propanolol, which gets his resting heart rate down to around 75-80.
When kids are rule followers and have high expectations of themselves, and are used to pushing themselves hard, they see every failure as a personal failure of effort, and end up at 'I am lazy'...

@MargotJane Agree they are definitely not lazy, they are working tirelessly just to be. Dd's school taught her she could put herself first, she could say no, she could give in and stop if that was what she needed. She doesn't have to keep going to her own detriment. It's made a huge difference to her self esteem.

Hi, I agree that the environment can be key. My younger daughter was the star pupil in every way at nursery. She was great in Reception too. She was charismatic and popular and had very good ideas about playing in the home corner which the other children loved.

But as the other children developed their social skills and began to form friendships, she was increasingly left out. She still wanted everyone to follow her games, which always revolved around mums and their children.

Another girl in her year was similar, only her games involved playing at being horses, riding horses, looking after horses.

Girls like this often get overlooked as they seem to have great creative play skills but actually it is all repwtive, hyper focused, inflexible, and fixed - and they are exposed once they age out of it being appropriate.

Other girls hyper focus on celebs, soaps, boy bands, Harry Potter etc, which is seen as socially acceptable. They are much less likely to fixate on eg sheep as a boy in my daughter's class did.

Parents are much more likely to help girls with their social skills issues, which can help them to mask better. As a therapist once said to me, parents of socially isolated boys tend to send them to rugby. They send their socially isolated daufhters to Stagecoach (generalising I know, but there is a truth in it).