DD overdose. The system is broken? Any advice?

[BeethovenNinth]

I have posted about DD before. Broken by lockdown, anorexia age 12, school drop out, burn out, self harm extreme. We are five years in.

we have repeatedly been told she doesn’t qualify for help and have tried various therapists ourselves.

she is out of school and self learning. Very lonely. Seems ok recently ot so I thought.

due to intense sadness last night she took an overdose of aspirin. I suspect a cry for help and she phoned childline who got her to phone 111. (She didn’t think to wake any of us). I suspect A and E will just kick us out soon.

we are a loving family but this is a huge setback.

we are Edinburgh based, desperate desperate for the right help.

private psychiatrist? Do we suggest sertraline? Anyone in Scotland have any good suggestions?

thanks from a broken mother

Thanks imip when you say it like that….. her group struggles are what tipped her into anorexia in first year. I do see it.

it would help me enormously to think this is female autism. Even if she doesn’t want it and it’s how I parent her now anyway.

the but that still has me questioning is that middle DD - who is flying high - is the one as a child I would have labelled with the potential as she was shy, struggled into school in primary one and mainly had male friends, at one point she collected rocks! She is doing well at school and some of her mixed group friends are boys with Asperger’s. She is well adjusted and makes friends easily.

none of this applied to eldest!! There are maybe different types of autism… I’m sure people would describe DD as high functioning but it doesn’t feel that way. And the autistic girls she was at school with (and she doesn’t identify with) are doing well.

This is why the functioning labels were dropped as they were so harmful. It used to effectively refer to intelligence. But it was taken to mean that high functioning doesn't mean there are any issues. Whereas actually highly intelligent autistic children are often the most anxious as they are so aware of being different.

Autism isn't a spectrum - every autistic person has traits in common but they vary in how severe each trait is. Like this autism wheel.

Some will do well in one stage or part of their life but not others. We have three autistic children in my close family of similar age and they are totally different. If you have one autistic child statistically you are very likely to have more (and also very likely to either be autistic yourself or the Dad is).

I see that diagram and it doesn’t make her fit so much but the words above do.

when she is anxious going into a social situation she does look autistic. That kind of blank stare. That’s only been since it all kicked off though - she didn’t the that as a child even when going to a party etc.

I think my younger sister is neurodiverse - she has sensory issues and overwhelm. I’m not autistic nor ADHD but equally I am considered quirky (eg I don’t watch much TV, do a lot of sport and am happy up a mountain on my own or with people). I have a good social life (at least I did until DD became unwell). I had a very tough upbringing - middle class but money worries and parents who threw things at each other. I was ignored a lot.

My aim in life was to give my children all the love in the world and sometimes I feel that has backfired as does that mean they lack resilience? DD says if she didn’t have me and my support though she wouldn’t still be here.

the children all come from donor sperm (and know this). We had a very full medical history for him and they were quite a mathematical family (he taught maths) and of course I’m now wondering if that is an angle. Please no judgment for the donor sperm - DH is totally infertile and it was our only way to have our much loved children. We discuss it a lot and it’s who we are as a family. But of course it’s a factor and a huge one and I suspect the genetic father is autistic. DD herself says she wonders if it’s from him but I point out my own side of the family has its fair share of quirks and that if DH had been their dad - there is a lot of mental health issues on his side. I try not beat myself up for my decisions but of course I do. Our children and hugely loved and wanted.z

There's no reason to beat yourself up - you have done everything you can do and clearly love your kids. This is a challenging time but she knows she has you (and her father) in her corner and that's so, so important.

I think you could spend a lot of time trying to understand the why and the how and what triggered x, y, z but it won't really help you manage the situation you are in now. Whether you call it autism or autistic tendencies triggered by a time of huge anxiety or OCD or anything really... the impact is what you need to focus on. Autistic or not, every child is different and every one of them needs something specific from their parents or therapists or people around them. I was in a support group for parents of autistic teens and the variety of experiences was immense. So while it's helpful to find your tribe and might be helpful to reach out to support groups and such, your lives will be unique and what might help your daughter will be personal to her.

My daughter is definitely autistic - but her journey has made me really reflect on myself (and my parents! I think in a different generation they would have been diagnosed themselves but they won't hear of it now).

If you gave her total autonomy over her weekend what would that look like? Would she hide in her room? Go outside? Be alone for hours and hours? What does life look like for her when she's in charge?

I wouldnt have thought of myself or my family as autisitc until my first child was born. We are all just quirky and managed school due to being academic. But actually I realise now that there is probably a reason I am friends with so many ND people. I just don't fit in with the majority of people who like fashion or makeup or celebrities or big nights out (no judgement at all - I'm just an outdoorsy quiet person). I need time to recharge from social situations even though I enjoy them. I'm far happier now I realise I'm probably autistic (and diagnosed ADHD) than I was before.

Autism can be problematic but it also does have upsides in some cases. I have a lot of engineers and scientists in my family. I also find for myself that I can think outside the box and come up with ideas because I notice things other people dont.

I was probably quite ignorant about autism until I met so many autistic kids via parent carer groups. They are all just as different as NT kids are from each other. One thing I noticed was that those doing well at primary often crash out in high school. Whereas some doing badly in primary thrive on the constantly changing setting in high school 🤷🏼‍♀️

No judgement at all about sperm donor. Could well come from that side too.

I'm so sorry OP. Please know that help is out there, it's just nigh on fucking impossible to access.

This may sound ott but microdosing magic mushrooms is amazing for shit mental health, got me off all my meds.

I appreciate they are difficult to acess, though you're just coming into shroomie season in some parts of Scotland.

Sending much love and strength. It's devastating when your child is going through this and so isolating.

Thanks all. I hugely appreciate you. I have more support on this post than I have in five years.

mushrooms - I haven’t discounted but I worry about if it might have a super adverse effect. But I have friends who take them so know how to access….. I’m not there yet… it’s the risk of psychosis that worries me

purple it depends how she is. She is trying so so hard just now. She does a choir with her sister on Saturday mornings and enjoys it and then we try see family after for lunch. Due to the years of her eating issues and possible anaemia and anxiety meaning she doesn’t eat enough, she is usually exhausted after that. Sundays she will hang out with her sisters and walk the dogs. I have taken all pressure off really and even restarting choir was a big win. She volunteers Mondays for an hour - another win. So she has been doing well since quitting school hence my surprise at this latest turn. She used to spend days in her room - that has stopped and she forces herself to hang out with me or her sisters. Sometimes her dad will take her shopping and they get on well despite the fact they are different

@BeethovenNinth

I wonder whether she would be interested in the Cinnamon Trust, OP.

Volunteers walk pets for people who would otherwise be unable to give them a walk.

https://cinnamon.org.uk/

OP, you seem to have some firm ideas about what autism looks like - the blank face for example. Neither of my autistic daughters does this.

Autism is largely about social communication and sensory difficulties and your daughter seems to have these.

A lot of people can relax once diagnosed as there is an explanation for why they feel different or don't fit in. There is a sense of community from being autistic which some people like to tap into.

I know so many autistic girls. Most went through a crisis at some point but came out of it. They are all unique individuals.

It can be such a relief to know. Society is much more accepting of Autism as the underlying factor than in any other condition btw. There are dedicated services too.

I suggest you contact your local carer's association for support.

arran I don’t - I am ignorant, confused and a burnt out. Apologies if I offend.

we have a private psych assessment Friday 1630. they were astonished a child can attempt suicide and still not be seen.

I have also submitted a complaint to PALS really just to try in vain help others.

I hope your appointment goes well. No pressure but it would be great to hear if something DOES eventually work for your DD as it may give others a bit of advice/hope. (Obviously not your top priority just now). I’m pleased you have put something into PALS too as the situation is abysmal.

snow definitely. Not least as mumsnet has been a real support for me. I will keep posting updates here. I guess there are the ongoing parenting boards too but things get lost

anyway let’s see how Friday goes - telling DH the cost tonight! Lucky we have the option to do it. When I have headspace I need to think about how on earth we try get traction here. Lost generation?

You mention PTSD, and indeed COVID and lockdown could have presented its own trauma.

Our local paediatricians will not diagnose ASD/ADHD if trauma is present. I am navigating this with my 8 year old (have been since age 4). We were also off-rolled from school last October. We have had to completely turn to private services as the NHS is not able to treat her trauma. I have been told by different professionals that trauma may present similarly to neurodivergence. My daughter actually presents exactly like a child with ND and SPD - she's been referred multiple times by medical professionals with a request for assessment, but each time they come back and say no, due to her trauma. They tell us to go back to CAMHS but CAMHS were not able to help us. So I've given up and am just trying to find private help for her.

You might find it useful to speak to these people about whether they might be able to help your daughter and you as a family: https://beaconhouse.org.uk/

They also have some resources around anxiety and self harm if you have a look on here and scroll down:

https://beaconhouse.org.uk/resources/

If you look up the Coventry Grid this gives an overview of the common differences between trauma or attachment difficulties and autism. It's not perfect though.

Both my daughters are adopted and both were diagnosed with autism. In both cases the therapists thought very carefully about the early trauma and explained in great detail why they were diagnosing autism.

I believe their birth mother is on the spectrum btw. I think it explains a lot of what happened.

I have been commenting on this thread and reflecting on how relieved I am that my eldest is in a good place now.

And my youngest just told me he’s been having suicidal thoughts.

Im exhausted and devastated to have to watch another child go through it all. And this time round I’m not naive enough to think there is any help.

Thanks for your reply to my comment.

This is what is frustrating me. My local NHS-contracted paediatricians will not consider my daughter for possible ND because of her trauma history up to age 4. She has been referred by 3 different professionals at age 4, age nearly 6, and age 7 nearly 8... All referrals were rejected stating that she has trauma and to go back to CAMHS. In the last one they categorically stated she does not display any signs of ND. They've never seen her a day in her life.

This last time, I wrote back a strongly worded letter.

I'm literally going to have to take her to a private CAMHS service who will look at the trauma and also consider whether there's any other possible diagnoses. If there aren't, there aren't, but I don't want to miss something because the symptoms can be seen in both developmental trauma and AuDHD. She also has sensory processing difficulties and comes across in a way I have seen described by others whose children have PDA.

ess I’m so sorry. Please keep in touch on here. It might be different this time, not least as you are armed with knowledge

The trauma is interesting and my friend who works in social care said same to me when she said she thought my DD wasn’t autistic

and also that the trauma can be varied. Presumably there might be neurodivergent traits to begin with that are hammered by the autism

DD told me last night - after an ok day - she felt low and made the sign that she might cut herself later. I have barely slept in days as I wake to check every few hours (that she is alive) and I broke down and said I would have to phone NHS 24. DH then took her for a walk and she returned saying she didn’t mean it and just felt overloaded and wanted something. I have snapped a bit and said I’m utterly on the edge myself as I’m not sleeping and that our messaging needs to change in terms of her emotions. I’m here for her but she is oblivious to the fact we are destroyed by this

I am so sorry to hear this. When dd was like this, we took a mattress and slept in her room or put the mattress outside her room with the door open. We did this for years. Literally years. We couldn’t always keep her safe. My husband and I took turns every night. By this stage she was at CAMHS. We had this rare thing of a good therapist who was entirely aware of what we were doing. On some
nights when she refused to sleep (with the clear intention of SH) we took shifts to stay awake every two hours. We were worn and shattered. Social care didn’t help with this, but the head of the SW team kept telling me to complain and keep pushing.

dd was doing DBT at the time and we did the parents group. I can remember the CAMHS clinician once commenting on my appearance, that I was worn, that I lost my fight. Dh and I were still working and managing to keep out dd alive. I cannot believe we survived this time, and not always with grace!

a game changer for us has always been melatonin. Three autistic kids that don’t sleep and anxiety at night is the killer. Doesn’t always work, but allowed us to get some sleep.

dd is now at uni, lives away, is studying psych! She is a much more reasonable person to be with now but it still takes a lot of daily contact and rushed trips to uni. She still SH but she can now see life is worth living. She’s 19, we always thought she would be dead before she was 18.

these are hard, lonely times. I never found a parent who was living like this, but this thread shows us there are many exhausted shattered parents like us out there.

I am really sorry you have all been through that. I’m in awe at the support you provided your daughter.

Melatonin was our saving grace with autistic DD too.

I can’t fathom how hard that would be, DH has rheumatoid arthritis and wouldn’t cope:

i am in the spare room across the hall and kept my door open last night.

i actually have melatonin. I bought it online and then abroad when DD was unwell with anorexia to help me sleep. It doesn’t help me sleep but I am now giving it to DD as it was her inability to sleep that triggered this in Friday night. It is actually helping - I am having to play around to get the right dose so she isn’t groggy next day. But it means she is now sleeping which is a godsend.

ess hope you are ok. How old is your son?

Has anyone heard of Japanese hikikimori. Have a google.

it sounds like their definition of burnout. The word draws on a retreat into oneself

this word is the best description of my daughter when she first shut herself away.