Dependent sibling and elderly parents. What what happens when parents are gone?

[Endofanerainourtime]

I’m interested to hear from anyone who has been in a similar situation.
My sister is 53 and has lived with my parents for many years. They’re both in their 80s and provide a lot of practical and financial support. She has had a very chaotic life, including a long history of addiction and difficulty keeping stable employment. She’s currently off work with stress following yet another dispute with her employer.
There have also been incidents of violence towards my parents in the past when she was using drugs, and more recently she had a huge outburst towards them which the neighbours heard.
My parents say they want her to become independent and move out, but there always seems to be a reason why now isn’t the right time. I keep saying that I think it would be better for her to learn to live independently while they’re still around to support her, rather than being forced into it when they’re no longer here.
They say they don’t expect me to take responsibility for her, but I worry that when the time comes I’ll feel like I have no choice. I don’t want her living with me or to become responsible for supporting her, but I know I’d feel guilty if she had nowhere to go.
I’d really like to hear from anyone whose sibling was dependent on their parents and then had to manage independently after their parents died or could no longer support them.
How did it work out? Did your sibling manage? Did you end up having to step in? And is there anything you wish you’d done differently while your parents were still alive?

I think you will need to provide more info about your sister’s situation, regarding her reliance on your parents.
She’s lived with them ‘for many years’: so, prior to this she lived independently? Is her living there based on an a past economic necessity, or is there any degree of actual incapacity there?
Any addict, sober or not, of course has a permanent illness, but that needn’t be read as a mental limitation.
I imagine she anticipates remaining in this house after your parents pass away, though that would not be a simple transition.

One parent will, God willing, remain, and companionship will be welcome. Or maybe the house would need to be sold, to fund a care home place for them.
That’s a scenario whose possibility you could broach with DS; what would she do if she lost her home in this way? Should you both be looking for a flat for her to rent, sooner rather than later, etc?
(Maybe the house will have to be sold anyway, if it’s willed to you both equally.)

It might ease your parents’ worries if they knew you were being supportive with her finding her own place.

I sympathise but can't offer much advice. Had a similar situation with a sibling who ended up living with mum after dad died. Sibling had addiction issues and was rarely reliably in work. I worried a lot about what would happen once mum died but sadly sibling died first (very unexpectedly).

I'm not sure there is much you can do other than encourage your sister to move out while your parents are still around to offer support but if they won't take that suggestion on board sadly there's little you can do.

I think you would be doing right by yourself and sister AND parents if you can make it absolutely clear to them now that you are not willing to have your sister live with you when one or both parents have passed.

Remove any hope that you would change your mind when it came to it.

That way they should start planning now for the future.

No need to feel any guilt - she sounds very very difficult

If she's eligible, get her on her local housing register now. She won't be considered in need now, so won't be offered anything, but if she were to become homeless when her parents pass, it may help her then. Whilst the housing register isn't a waiting list as such, time on the list does count within the banding, so if she were later given some priority for bidding due to homelessness, time on the list would count compared to others in the same situation.

If your parents are in a council or housing association tenancy I'd check the succession rules to make sure she's not banking on inheriting a tenancy she isn't eligible for.

You might also want to find out whether there are any supported accommodation services in your area or nearby that she might qualify for (there can be some for those considered 'in recovery' though less than there used to be) Just if it helps you feel more confident about a stance of signposting and not allowing her to move in. Definitely don't let her move in unless you are happy for her to stay permanently, as you'll likely end up in the same situation as your parents.

My guess is she wants the house when they die

I’m in this position. It sucks. There is no help and the help there is they have to want to access.

Yeah if it's an owned property I'd gently ask questions about the will. My friend had a very difficult situation where his parents left the family home to the two of them, brother had never moved out and thought that because it was 'his home' he should be allowed to stay in it without any recompense to his brother.
It was a London property so worth a significant sum, brother didn't work and his stance was 'i can't buy you out without money I don't have so tough'. My friend had to take legal action to force the sale of the house, which was stressful as well as expensive.

I think your parents wont have it in them to drop the rope on her, she wont suddenly be able to be a responsible adult when they pass. Id be prepared to have zero contact for your own health when your parents do pass.

Agreed. Start hardening your heart now, you are NOT responsible for your sister.

Could you start a conversation with all of them based on an imaginary friend of yours in similar circumstances where it has gone sideways and say 'what was everyone thinking is going to happen as this has taught me its good to discuss now' or is it the kind of situation where your sister is always too... stressed, and wont want to discuss at all?

You'll always have a choice. Do you know what's in the will? Are you the only other sibling, and will the house be split 50-50? Would half the value of the house be enough to get her a smaller house or a flat?

Don't let her live with you, unless you want to be her carer when you're in YOUR eighties. You don't see retirement-age women sleeping rough; if all else fails, she'll be eligible for council housing.

This will land on your doorstep unfortunately. Your parents are letting you both down badly here. I’d be very disappointed.

I would be very wary that if something happens to your parents, she would expect to live in the house forever

I have previously spoken to my parents about it and they say they would like to buy her somewhere to live, so that she has somewhere secure when they are no longer here. The problem is that when they have suggested this to my sister, she says she doesn’t want to leave and wants to stay living with them, despite constantly moaning about them.
She has had short periods of living independently in the past, but they haven’t ended well and invariably she ended up back on drugs. She also hasn’t been contributing financially to my parents, but despite that she hasn’t managed to save any money.
She has no savings or pension and is currently signed off work, so has no income at the moment. I honestly can’t see her getting another job after everything that’s happened, although obviously I could be wrong.
So I keep wondering how she could realistically live independently anyway. If my parents bought her somewhere to live, how would she actually be able to manage the ongoing costs of living alone with no income or savings?

We are in that exact same position with my brother living with our parents. My brother does work though ( minimum wage).

Parents are trying to purchase him a property before they pass on. It’s not happened yet though.

I’m a long distance away and living with cancer. We have another sibling who won’t want any contact with either of us when our parents go. Parents absolutely do not want our sibling to be in the house when they go.

I would be interested to see if there is anything that can be done as myself and my siblings will be in a similar situation at some stage. The only difference is my sibling owns her own two bed house outright. She’s also a hoarder which my mum actually admitted a while ago. She used to go back to her own house to sleep but now mostly stays over with my mother most nights. She hasn’t had a job in years. She doesn’t have any heating in her own house as the gas has been turned off so she used electric heaters in the winter. Her shower and washing machine are broken so she uses my mums. The fridge has never been turned on so she eats in my mums after she gets up at about 12 midday. She has capacity which is a huge problem. She is also extremely unpleasant and argumentative. She would basically fight with her own shadow over nothing.

Gosh this all rings true with my brother!

I have to admit I’m extremely annoyed with my parents for not doing more about the situation while they still can. I know they say they want to sort something out for her, but years keep passing and nothing actually changes. I try not to think about it too deeply because I know it would start to affect my relationship with my parents.
The difficult thing is that I don’t particularly like my sister as a person. I find her personality very difficult and, if she wasn’t my sister, she’s honestly not someone I would choose to have in my life. But she’s constantly there whenever I see my parents and obviously comes with them whenever I invite them to mine, so I can’t really get any separation from the situation.
I also have to bite my tongue because if I’m negative about her, my mum gets really upset and immediately becomes defensive of her. I don’t want to upset my mum or damage our relationship, so I tend to keep my feelings to myself, which probably isn’t helping with the resentment I’m feeling.

It sounds like she'd actually be better off looking at some sort of supported housing when they go. I have a family member like this; they're in permanent 'victim status' (addiction related) and as much as they claim poverty, they don't actually want to be independent - they want other people to care for them.

For your own sake though, I'd try and find out whether theres any likelihood of her trying to keep your parents house, whether legally or illegally, so you're not trying to research that at a time you're grieving, or before then if there's the need to pay care costs.

Ditto. My sibling is very odd and clearly has undiagnosed mental health issues. He’s not a nice person either. My parents have tried so many times to get him out and each time, he’s chosen the most horrid accommodation, got himself into a mess and my parents have had to take him back!

Have your parents considered downsizing to a retirement flat? If it’s a one bed 5ey won’t be able to have a guest stay with them?

Honestly OP, the reality to expect is that if your parents haven't made her leave home yet they never will, and she'll either find a way to stay in the home or will be doing a sadface article on social media in a few years time about the injustices of the housing system because she's been kicked out.
One reason you don't see many women homeless is because they're more likely to find a man to move in with - I know that sounds sarky but it's true - women can be cocklodgers just as men can be, when they want someone else to look after them and bear the adult responsibility.

would your parents buying into somewhere where they can live next door to each other be a good step?

I think part of the problem is that parents have developed a strange kind of relationship with her and worry that my sister won’t cope if she moves out, so instead of pushing her towards independence, they end up keeping her dependent.
I also think my sister has been very infantilised by my parents over the years. They do so much for her that she’s never really had to develop the skills or responsibility that most people have by her age. It becomes a vicious circle. They worry she won’t cope independently, so they continue to support her, and because they continue to support her, she gets less and less able to cope.

I think be clear about what you will do or not do. I’d probably write a letter then it’s clear.
Ask them to make sure their will is up to date and clear as to their wishes. Eg is they want house sold and 50/50. She may have some notion she’s entitled to stay or has more rights if she stays put now.