AIBU to wonder whether ADHD is normal and society is the issue

[LadyBeatriceBeaHiggins]

No offence intended

Discussing about Adhd with a friend who has Adhd and we wondered what if Adhd is naturally a part of being human and its the way society trys to make humans into machines that is the problem ?

so figured id open up our debate for fellow mumsnetters

What do you mean about proof?
I'm just saying that things were so different; they offered a completely different level of attentional demands and there was much less negative sensory stimulation.
I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm giving my opinion, based on experience of a different lifestyle in the past. The world was calmer.

Ok so I’m nearly 60 and have ADHD, it’s the same now as it was 50/60years ago.

That's fine. That's your experience.
It happens to be my opinion that a possible explanation for the exponential rise in ADHD diagnosis is that the demands society makes on attention have grown exponentially with technology and caused more people to have ADHD symptoms.
I don't think there's anything unusual or controversial about this thinking.

Your theory is wrong.Its under diagnosed in this country and the rise is due to the diagnosis process recognising that women and girls present differently and you can have both autism and adhd. 50% of the population that weren’t being diagnosed before now are alongside those with autism. People often have both.

It's my opinion, based on experience. It isn't a theory. I'm not an academic. It's just a personal view and I don't think it's appropriate to tell me I'm 'wrong'. That's what my life has shown me.
I'm perfectly happy for you to have a different opinion and I'm not going to call you 'wrong.'
As it happens, I am fairly well informed about ADHD, so I do understand what you're saying. However, I don't think you can say with certainty that it's underdiagnosed. Lots of well qualified people would not agree with you.

If you're wrong then so are a huge number of practitioners, consultants, academics and psychiatrists who have also posited this. There is no one view about this.

Im also very well informed and experienced working with people with ADHD and ASD, my sibling is diagnosed with Aspergers and there are a number of factors, features, layers to how this is being navigated, how it used to be navigated and how it will in the future. The parameters and observations of traits have changed and will change again.

The NHS ADHD task force that contains a lot of “well qualified” people disagrees with you.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/long-read/report-of-the-independent-adhd-taskforce-part-1/

NHS ADHD taskforce

“ADHD diagnosis rates: We showed that in England, there is consistent evidence that ADHD is under-recognised, under-diagnosed and under-treated (including with medication).
Stigma: We noted people with lived experience report challenges and injustice around ADHD because of stigma, misinformation and misunderstanding, including among some professionals. There also are concerns about the accuracy of information on ADHD provided by some sectors of social media and traditional media. Children and adults highlighted the impacts of negative attitudes around ADHD on them. We noted additional stigmatisation for those from marginalised communities.”

”There is no evidence of an increase in the number of children in the population meeting criteria for ADHD diagnosis over time.”

“In England, clinician-defined ADHD is under-recognised, under-diagnosed and under-treated.”

“In England, recognised rates of ADHD are lower than the expected prevalence of ADHD. “

”England and the rest of the UK have much lower service recognition and treatment rates of ADHD diagnosis compared with other European countries.”

“Recent data show a very high level of under-recognition and under-treatment of strictly diagnosed ADHD, with significant inequalities in access to care (e.g. minority groups). For example, for those who meet strict diagnostic criteria for ADHD, fewer than one-third of children have contact with any type of mental health service, and only 15–25% of adults and children obtain pharmacological treatment.”

“The reasons for increased demand for ADHD assessments… it is likely due to multiple factors, including greater awareness, changes in DSM-5 and ICD-11 diagnostic criteria that are reflected in changes to NICE guidelines (e.g. co-diagnosis with autism is now allowed), previous missed or misdiagnosis, especially among females , impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic,the perceived requirement for a diagnosis to access support (e.g. education) and more recent scientific evidence that ADHD is not restricted to childhood, but often persists across adult life. This means adults who were missed as children are now presenting to services. “

“Despite the effectiveness of treatment for those who meet diagnosis citeria and consistency of robust scientific evidence on its impacts and costs, ADHD can be downplayed and is prone to misinformation. Currently, the estimated economic costs of not treating ADHD are around £17 billion to the UK economy.”

” ADHD is commonly misunderstood or not recognised, contributing to inequalities across all sectors. “

“ADHD rarely presents in isolation ADHD frequently co-occurs with other types of neurodivergence/neurodevelopmental disorders that onset in childhood, e.g. autism (disorder is the terminology used in current diagnostic systems) However, ADHD, autism and other neurodevelopmental services in England are often separated and siloed by diagnosis type and by age, so are not person-centric. ADHD co-occurrence with common and rare mental health problems (e.g. anxiety, depression, bipolar disorder) is also extremely frequent.”

Dr Utah Frith was on the Today Programme at about 1:49 minutes in talking about how now there is a very wide spectrum of symptoms all called autism. This ranges from someone who is non-verbal with complex additional needs to someone extremely high functioning with excelllent powers of expression. The criteria is so wide that it is impossible to look for the cause.

A element in the exponential growth of the numbers of people who are autistic is she says owing something to social media influencers who have played a part in young people looking for a way to explain their feelings of having difficulties and not fitting in by identifying with a group for the social comfort of it. (This is all
my paraphrase).
www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m002zrmm

If numbers of ADHD diagnoses in the UK are lower than in other countries we should look at those countries and their practices individually as examples, not presume that all those other countries are doing the right thing, as perhaps they are not.

As for the USA they are often over prescribing to children, driven by private medicine and pharmaceutical profits and ignoring other factors affecting, say for example, a fidgety child in school.

And there should be a great deal of psychological help for these girls to get to the root of their problems as these can also be classic symptoms of sexual abuse as well as of adhd.

Not following thread; too much going on right now.

But sharing this for info - autism.

‘Catch-all’ autism definition may become worthless, expert says

https://www.thetimes.com/article/92e4f7d3-3bcb-4fe4-9ec5-eab8e3018de2?shareToken=12a97b578047b59c6ff18302baabe0d3

I agree with this article. The argument against the last 2013 DSM re branding of autism as a spectrum has apparently led to much less research into children with severe autism. A few years ago it felt like you weren’t allowed to say “severe” autism as activists, often with university careers, said that every autistic persons autism is severe.

The loss of Asperger’s in particular as a diagnosis has been an issue imho. (Probably needs a better name mind you as Asperger wasn’t a great person.)

I believe, after 26 years teaching send, that adhd is more of a spectrum than autism.

Uta Frith has quite has been widely criticised by professionals in the field as she doesn’t think women and girls should have autism diagnosis accessible to them.

https://www.autism.org.uk/blog/challenging-misinformation-about-autism-using-evidence-to-correct-false-claims

Just listened to a professor on the radio saying that there has been a massive increase in the number of diagnoses. There is a view that having or wanting a label of ND is becoming a cultural issue.

Autism research is really important as 10% of those diagnosed move on to be diagnosed with/ develop schizophrenia. (At least, under previous diagnosis rates.)

This is really crucial to understand as the condition develops during teen years and can be well managed with intervention drugs if the individual accesses them early.

Sadly I am aware of a couple of previous pupils of mine who went on to develop the condition. There needs to be much better joined up care. BDP is often mis diagnosed too - and can also be well managed and cured by the right therapy. Obviously the impact of early and later childhood trauma underlies all of these conditions and complicates a great deal of both diagnosis and support.

The term autism originated from research into schizophrenia to describe how individuals retreated into an inner world.

And the NHS adhd taskforce which only provided their findings last year disagrees.

The stigma and ignorance as regards ADHD is loud and clear, as said taskforce highlighted.

she’s been absolutely vilified.

It’s worth listening to the interview she did with Naomi Fisher. Who was then also completely hauled over hot coals by social media by autistic people for interviewing her.

Shouting at each other and vilifying on SM has over taken rigourous academic research. Which is Uta’s point.
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/lets-talk-neurosense-the-psychology-of-neurodiversity/id1883007944?i=1000753534858

I have a massive issue with the term neurodivergent/ diversity etc. It doesn’t actually mean anything and is not a diagnosis. And I’m not alone; a growing number of researchers are pointing out the issue of the label.

Actually I agree with you to some extent. My children have NHS diagnoses for Autism and ADHD alongside other diagnoses. I don’t see them as ND which could mean anything but people with autism and adhd- Audhd ( and other diagnoses). ND means very little.

There’s also a cultural shift from older people more thinking these conditions are entirely negative so avoiding them to younger people being more neutral about them.

My MIL seems to have declined to have DP assessed for autism as a child and he only knew he was dyslexic. DC1 was falling apart and we got her assessed and MIL as a bit doom and gloom about it and even didn’t want us to apply for DLA because it would further label her as disabled.

In the process of getting DC1 & 2 assessed we’ve realised that DP is likely autistic and also dyspraxic, as a child he had a heavy amount of therapy to help him with dyspraxia things (being able to throw and catch for example) but no one told him anything other than dyslexia which from the way my MIL talks is a socially acceptable disorder, Alan sugar has it don’t you know.

They expressed dismay that we thing that all three of our children are ND, I just see it as a pretty neutral fact about them. There are traits I wish I could take away yes but they’re different for each child not a broad brush Problem. There are really helpful traits that I love too and that make them happy.

Obviously not all older people and it all younger people but you know what I mean

I get the point of the term. It was originally to support disability rights discussion where the individual doesn’t have a physical condition.

Definitely agree with this.
obviously there are extremes but in general society has become so rigid and controlled, any individuality and difference highlighted, talent isn’t celebrated anymore. People who were ‘different’ were often the greatest and most talented in our society. Now it is a disability.
We are human and all different and our modern society makes this very difficult. Society needs to adapt, not humans.

Well Judith Brown is hardly a disinterested party

It's not just about being "different"