AIBU to wonder whether ADHD is normal and society is the issue

[LadyBeatriceBeaHiggins]

No offence intended

Discussing about Adhd with a friend who has Adhd and we wondered what if Adhd is naturally a part of being human and its the way society trys to make humans into machines that is the problem ?

so figured id open up our debate for fellow mumsnetters

i agree with that one,

if it is not then i belive im needed on a psyche ward as i regularly talk in my mind / to myself

Its an interesting idea and I agree up to a point. But society does need to function. I know if the world was full of people like me, doing what they actually wanted to do, it would be absolute chaos!

I want all the benefits of living in a relatively organised society so I need to try my best to do my part. Even if it doesn't come naturally to me.

I dont think we are naturally meant to live how we do, but how else do we make it work?

Both can be true.

There are some people who have some level of ADHD traits who would have been fine in a simpler less overloaded era but can’t cope with aspects of modern life.

There are some people with much more pronounced ADHD traits who would not have been fine in any era.

Same with autism I suspect.

Or not being able to talk or even commnicate like my son with autism ?
As ever these threads just minimise these conditions
They are spectrum condtions for a reason.

Biologically, yes. But what I meant was that just about everyone has interests, preferred ways of dressing and presenting themselves and personality traits that do not align with what is most common/typical of their sex.

The English school system is awful . My ND dc were getting worse and worse and not functioning till I pulled them out and did home ed. They have a tutor for each subject / classes and work at home but we do one subject per day. They hated the rush between lessons and trying to switch their concentration between subjects as well as pressure about other aspects of school life. It was too much and hindering their learning.

that is a good question, and yea the answer is tricky one, at a guess use robots then humans can be human

Most people talk to themselves
That is very different to responding to auditory hallucinations.

I dont think so. Adhd can be very debilitating.

Thats the same as saying 'dyslexia is normal, some people just cant read' or 'bipolar is normal, some people just hear voices'

Sorry, yabu.

exactly

i never intended the logic to apply to other aspects ,

If you saw your child with and without medication (even on unstructured, undemanding days) you would realise what nonsense you speak.

I was just thinking this today about my family. They were all brought up for generations on the edge of Europe in remote landscapes and hostile weather conditions. There was no work and farming was bleak and barely sustainable. They had to live on their wits in a forever changing environment, 4 seasons in one day - just to eat / survive. Being on high alert and ready to land an opportunity in uncertainty and changing conditions was a skill set. Then they all moved to London, made loads of money being busy entrepreneurs in construction but passed all their ADHD genes down to all of us who went through a city based culture and educational system that we were square pegs in! Most of my siblings and cousins are fuxked but we are great fun together.

How csn it not be a disorder ? The name is Atrention defecit hyperactivity Disorder
It is howevet a spectrum disorder and will affect some peoole far more than others .

What specifically is it that you see about ADHD as being incompatible with society but beneficial in general? Because I think you're about halfway there. It is a disorder. It can be exacerbated by the environment or by unrealistic expectations but it is still a disorder.

Generally the problems caused by ADHD are where you have a brain process which is working normally, but in people without ADHD it is managed or affected by another brain process, which in ADHD works poorly, and this tends to cause problems which is why it's seen as a disorder.

There are some aspects of society/expectations which are arguably too much for everyone - there's a theory that ADHD/autistic people are like the "canaries in the coal mine" of showing up the unsuitability of these expectations and environments on humans in general, and I think there's something in that - just because someone without these conditions can power through and get it done, it doesn't mean they won't suffer the effects of stress or similar.

Possibly, for the kind of ADHD that self diagnosed/late diagnosed middle aged people with jobs and families have. I identify with the vast majority of the things they tend to describe and I'm NT with mental health issues. I think thosectwo things are often confused.

But not the kind of ADHD that gets diagnosed aged 6-12 and makes almost every area of life difficult or impossible to cope with. I've worked with many of these children/young people. They have a lifelong disability, not a personality trait.

I don't believe neurodivergent people are disordered, as all the words describing them claim. I do believe that it is unlikely that the traits would have been passed on so often if they had been evolutionary barriers. Although there are people who are severely disabled by these conditions, they are unlikely to have offspring to pass the genes along. Drugging healthy children to sit still for hours to educate seems the height of wrong! Little bodies were designed to be constantly on the go.

I do feel there is still great value in assessment. Understanding how your brain processes information and where your strengths and support needs are is hugely useful. But it has been framed as a deficit model and people rarely come away with useful information on how they can benefit from their brains processing things as they do. If we really were an inclusive society, there wouldn't be problems for the majority of people with adhd. But we have designed modern life to be really difficult for a significant number of people.

I do think though that ADHD is perhaps more debilitating in todays world than it was in the past.

Our fuse box went kaput a few weeks ago, and we were without electricity for better part of a day. (Luckily my brothers an electrician so thats all it was!)

By sheer bad luck, DP's phone was on about 3% battery when it went out, so she spent the entire day without access to any form of electronic device. DP has ADHD.

She found the whole day an absolute revelation. The absence of distractions enabled her to get so much done, and she said she can't remember the last time she'd been able to focus like that.

She was kind've gutted when the power went back on!

Everyone has different strengths and needs. I want to start by saying I am very tolerant and don't moan about people being 'disruptive', I'm a live and let live type. People given the term ADHD are usually the people who don't fit into this nice quiet box of being compliant and working at a similar pace to everyone else. They get called 'disruptive' 'lazy' 'in their own world' 'rude' etc.
It's all based on what others expect of people: everyone in class works at the same pace, be quiet at the same time and stay still unless told to move. Everyone at work is fully switched on in work mode during the scheduled working hours and works at a steady pace at the same times. People are quiet and still in public areas so they're not a 'nuisance' to others. People show attentive listening skills, never forget greetings in the way expected for that culture, follow the unwritten rules about how to show empathy, how to have the right ratio of listening and talking and always recognise when it is your turn to talk. Keep your home and yourself looking tidy and organised at all times. Take all the expectations away and ADHD would not be seen as a disorder, people would thrive and be able to utilise their personal strengths and skills. ADHD absolutely is only a problem because it doesn't fit in with societies expectations.

It’s not “normal”, but life these days exacerbates how it impacts. My dad has ADHD and is in his 80’s now… late life diagnosis. It stopped him being able to access education in the 50’s as he was labelled a “naughty boy” and just written off from education at a young age.

Please don’t go down the route of everyone is a bit ADHD like some people say everyone is a bit autistic. Neither really help and it perpetuates the current conversation about there being an over-diagnosis. The real scandal is around the number of people over the years who have been given a mental health diagnosis where it should have been ADHD or Autism. I am also later life diagnosed and it’s completely reframed my childhood.

Of course. And I have ADHD. Plenty other cultures/civilisations where it wouldn’t even be noticed.

Maybe for some people.
I have depression and OCD as well as ADHD and I can’t see them as anything other than things that are wrong with my brain. Being stuck on the same thought or behaviour like a record player skipping over and over for hours or days on end, not being able to read a book, watch a tv show or movie without my brain wandering all over the place, to lie down or relax my body, the insomnia..they are all horrible and deeply distressing. There’s no situation where any of it is advantageous. It has done nothing but make my life harder.

it is a perfectly normal and effective way of functioning
Totally agree this. It comes with benefits and inconveniences. It's easy to only focus on the negatives and conveniently ignore the positives.

Then there is about learning adapt. Having ADHD doesn't mean you can't do some things, just that it might demand more efforts to do them.

That's life. Everyone has to put more efforts on things that others find more easy. It's up to us adhders to adapt and reach our kids to do so.

You lose everything...you come up with a system to remind yourself to take everything before you leave.

You interrupt people all the time? you learn to count before taking turn.

You are distracted and struggle to focus on a task? You set yourself a project plan that works for you etc....

Apparently, before the industrial revolution, families and communities were more flexible and found people we would now consider 'disabled' roles in society that worked for them. The industrial revolution brought with it rigid roles and patterns of work. The inability to perform this type of work began to be seen as 'disability.' I think we're still living with this and society needs to become more flexible about what people can contribute and how they can be made comfortable enough to contribute it.