AIBU to ask what more I can do for traumatised children?

[CherryBerryBlossom]

What am I missing? What else can I do?
I’ve left an abusive marriage after 12 years. I suffered physical abuse, emotional abuse and my ex is being charged with coercive and controlling behavior, harassment and GBH (as well as some other things but let’s not be too outing!)
As a result I’ve been left with some very damaged children (aged 7 and 6) - I will never ever forgive myself for the damage that’s been done.
They replicate the behaviour they’ve seen and been victim to themselves. They speak to me in the most vile way with insults, swearing and disrespect, they tell me to shut up, they rampage my house, they kick, bite and punch me and one another. They call me liar and useless. They say ‘I don’t have to listen to you’
I have an allocated Social Worker, I have completed an 8 week DVAP course and the children are on the waiting list for DVAP, I’ve had a DVAP worker allocated this week. I’m in the process of paying for private play therapy for the children. I’ve paid for the Freedom Programme.
What else can I do? what else should I do? I can’t fail the children any longer.

Professional help only goes so far. The best outcome will come from a mother who parents in a way where she does NOT tolerate abuse or disrespect from her kids.

They will slowly learn that they are then secure in her boundaries and love. That is the key here, not play therapy, not an art session. Not a psychologist who names emotions

a mother who does not parent on guilt. Teaches her kids the model of self respect. She becomes the biggest model and teacher now.

If she respects herself day in day out, and holds firm in her rules and love they will respond far quicker than any other outside source or agency. They are young enough for a complete U turn.

They won’t need five point scales, they need STRONG BOUNDARIES, RULES and a complete lack of tolerance for abuse. Day in, day out.

No, I responded to you disagreeing that OP had failed. You took umbridge with that and told me to stop posting with a very patronising stance. The other person I am not engaging with the because I have reported them instead. I am within my rights to disagree with the words you use and voice that. Glad you are now supporting OP but you don’t get to tell others to be quiet just because they disagree with you. I will not be engaging with you further because it’s derailing for the OP and I hope she finds support.

And you've got absolutely nothing to say to the incredibly nasty poster who's been hounding the OP all through this thread?

Interesting.

Very interesting.

Hi, all. Just a reminder that Mumsnetters often post threads here when they are at a low ebb, looking for support from other posters. We're here primarily to support other parents, often in those dark hours when they are desperate for a boost. Please bear that in mind when replying to threads.

Your kids are still very young. There is so much reason to have hope. You can help them move on from this. Nurturing and firm boundaries. Be confident in yourself and be their leader (even if you have to fake it to begin with). Expect respect.

I have reported them. And will continue to do so. Engaging with them is what they want, that’s how trolls work.

Enough now.

Hi OP,

You've done the hard part. Just keep talking to them and being there for them.
You will get there...just take it a day at a time.
Sending you and your children lots of love and positivity.

I agree with some of the earlier posters. I know you feel guilty and I know those children have been through a lot but that's why it's even more important to step up as a parent now otherwise you may have many, many years of this challenging behaviour until goodness knows what will become of them. It's good you're reaching out for help. Don't forget getting counselling for yourself. I wish there was better help out there. I think you'd greatly benefit from an experience foster parent supporting you or something similar but I don't even know if that's a thing.

This is exactly my point. Owning and taking responsibility is the first step the op needs to take in order to ensure the children have the best chance of recovery.

Reading this OP and thinking of you and your kids. All you can do is move forward in the best way possible, and I think there have been various posts suggesting sensible, practical ways of doing that. Recognising that obviously this wasn't the way anyone would want their kids to start their lives, you can't change history and the most important thing is to make sure you have the capacity to be there for your kids now. Please know that I am sure there will be lots of people reading this thread who aren't thinking in the way that a few repeated posters are doing.

Because I didn't have the means, he would lock me in the house with no phone access, he also controlled me in all ways, made me feel like I was the problem and that no one would believe me. I was also told wrongly by a police officer that any "historic" abuse (as in anything that hadn't happened within that past week or so) they wouldn't be able to do anything about. I was scared for mine and my children's lives, it is not always that simple. I consider myself to be an intelligent person but he emotionally and physically abused, manipulated and controlled me.

I do agree.

My first GP record was when I was in utero, and was lucky to even survive after my mother had been ferociously flung down the stairs.

The dynamic was 50 percent my mother and my father.

Worked in social care too. I am of the belief the professional help is secondary, completely and utterly secondary. The main long term outcome in all of this will be a mum who parents on instinct and not stupid five point scales.

They will be screaming out for some boundaries, not a permissive style where someone names their emotions. I’m all for validating children’s feelings but I’m not sure when that became the gold standard treatment and priority in trauma services.

They need to feel securely attached to their primary caregiver. They can only do that if the primary caregiver drops the guilt and truly moves forward in life. Stops relying on services and schools when their impact is a lot lower than people presume. I would definitely suggest some counselling for mum and I keep repeating myself here but she is essentially now allowing her children to abuse her.

We do not need to accept abuse of 7 and 5 year olds. Mum needs to model strength, self respect, rules, boundaries, consistency. If that doesn’t happen, a session with a learning mentor at school, quite frankly, is going to do sweet fuck all.

Sort it now when they are 7 and 5. Not 17 and 15, it’s far too late then. There is hope.

I have nothing more to add.

As we all know, it’s not always that easy to leave.

This is great advice. Set out your family manifesto in writing, in view, so you can refer back to it as needed. You can include positive things like 'in this family we...laugh together, enjoy silly dances, have movie nights', etc as well as the more behaviour and mutual respect ones such as '...we don't...call each other names, shout at each other, hit each other, spoil our home'.

It will take time, with the therapy and support, and there might be bumps in the road as you and they find your new normal and try to process the past.

I understand the guilt...I have it with my son for different reasons. We can only effect now and the future. Try to be kind to yourself and focus on a brighter future.

I am horrified by some of the responses on this post, particularly from fellow teachers.

I am so sorry you have gone through this OP, it will take time for you all to heal.

My mum was the victim of DV growing up, as children we witnessed and experienced so much and were very damaged by it. As an adult now I have been able to have so many grown up conversations with my mum about what she experienced and the truth was she was so controlled she had no choice. For her, she had no phone of her own, no access to money and was regularly beaten. She was told if she tried to leave, she would never see us again. Whilst angry I'm my teens for her 'allowing' us to live like that, I have come to realised that DV is so much more complicated than that. Like many other women, she simply didn't have a choice.

OP, you are in for a rough road and you are going to have to put your big girl pants on and deal with it head on. I wish you the best of luck. You have taken the biggest step, be proud of that. There are women all over the UK that are never able to make that step.

For those on this thread that lack understanding about domestic violence, please either educate yourself or don't comment on something you have no idea about. Women's aid have some really information and resources if you want to learn more about domestic violence and how difficult it is to leave.

@MultiBead we stay so long because at least when you are all under the same roof you can mitigate the vile cunt to a degree. Because you know if you leave you may be killed or your children may be killed. If you leave you have to hand your children over for unsupervised contact to an angry man who drives at over 100mph when he’s angry. Because post separation abuse is never ending so you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Because these vile cunts aren’t nasty all the time, they’re actually the nicest person you could meet 95% of the time and your children love them and maybe you didn’t have a dad yourself and would have given anything to have one, maybe getting shouted at isn’t the worst thing…. I could go on. Shame on anyone blaming the op (I have sympathy for pp who has this view due to their own abuse I can’t comment on their opinion as it’s personal to them) when you have NO IDEA the predicament. And don’t think reporting it and asking for help from services will make a difference it actually just pisses them off worse and you’re left to deal with the fallout. I’m 5 years free and the abuse is still ongoing despite criminal charges. If you’ve not been through it, respectfully… your opinions are utter shite 👍🏻

Wow, congratulations on getting out and already being so proactive in getting yourself and dc support. You sound like a bloody brilliant mum to me.

Just a thought with the rewards/ consequences and rules as you mentioned 'good days'. A day is a long old time for any young child to 'be good' and even longer for a tired parent during school holidays! There will inevitably be ups and downs every day with plenty of terrible moments along the way so try not to let the bad moments be the focus. It's probably much easier to create a positive atmosphere and all feel a bit happier if you (old cliche here) catch them being good as often as you can rather than give consequences for bad behaviour. 'Being good' can really be anything that you find acceptable or normal behaviour that you want to encourage. Label the behaviour - tell them what's good. e.g.
Dc1 you put your shoes on straight away when I asked you! Good girl, let's put a marble in the jar!
Dc2, well done, you've picked up nearly all your lego, just a few pieces left to go, thank you!
Both dc, you've played so nicely together for the last 5 minutes. You both talked kindly and happily. Let's put 5 marbles in the jar!

I'm not saying to ignore bad behaviour either. Try natural consequences in the moment (activities paused, or removed, 'time in' for a disregulated dc) and talk it through when things calm down.

Aim for at least 3 X positive comments for every 1 negative comment you make. It might all feel a bit fake, praising what's actually normal and expected and I'm not promising that it will have a magic effect on improving their behaviour but I do promise it will make you and them feel more positive. At the end of an up and down day it really helps to have noticed some of the moments that weren't terrible!

You could be me! All of those things and more, probably all the things you’d go on to say! X

Yes sorry, a good day wasn’t a good way of describing it - we take things minute by minute, and I pick up on the smallest things and try to be specific too. They’ve started to do it back to me which is lovely ‘thank you Mummy for xyz’ so they are taking some of it on board.

There really is some ignorant and cruel comments on here.

Op I have been where you are and it is incredibly hard, it will be hard for a long time but I'm sure you already know that. Just remember that you are not the one who inflicted this on yourself or your children, he is fully responsible for this entire situation. But you are the one who will make the difference for your children and turn their lives around. Lots of love, security, making them feel safe and know that you're not going to hurt/abandon them. You do of course need to hold very firm boundaries, they will have to be more firm than usual, no swaying or compromising. Same reaction every time to the behaviour and it will gradually lessen and things will look brighter. Come back to this thread in a year, or two years and I can guarantee you will see a big difference in that time.

You'll get there op, don't forget you are also traumatised so give yourself grace.

I’m sorry you’re going through this, but I just want to say I completely agree with a PP: do not parent out of guilt, you need to keep some form of authority and they need to have consequences for their behaviour towards you.

I was in the same situation as your children and my mother would never have allowed us to get away with bad behaviour. On the other hand, I overcompensated out of guilt with my own DD (different circumstances but still) and now I think it did her no favours in the long run.

You’re doing everything you can and doing your best. It’s very difficult to escape abusive relationships, so you’re already ahead of the game. Be proud.

Sorry if it's already been suggested but have a read up of therapeutic parenting. It's part of the training for adopters etc when trauma is involved.

Nothing really useful to add but well done for getting out. Be kind to yourselves

Their whole lives in living memory.

However that is simply semantics. Plenty of life still to live!

I grew up with an abusive dad, there are 5 of us, were in our 40s now, we've all been to counselling as adults, none of us with hindsight have much blame for our mum who tried her absolute best in a very difficult situation balancing the needs of far too many people with far too little support.

Also we're all great, all bar 1 married with children and all 5 in professional careers having grown up very poor. Get them counselling now, stay calm and patient

Your point that they are mirroring the violence they witnessed is putting a lot on them. They are kids with limited impulse control, your ex was an adult with a fully formed frontal lobe, their actions are not remotely comparable. My kids have never witnessed violence and get both have gone through hitting phases. Keeping yourself calm and not getting triggered will be a lot of your management strategy.

Good luck

When everyone is saying be firm and don’t parent out of guilt. I don’t think that I am but I appreciate noone knows me and I’m hardly a parenting oracle. I think I feel guilty but don’t act guilty as such- I don’t know how to describe it.

Im firm with boundaries and consequences but its difficult (as is parenting in general I know) yesterday one of them didn’t like what I said (long and short of it was being told no) so he threw stones at me, head butted me, swore and shouted, kicked me. What do I do other than remain calm? I did remain calm other than the crying due to the immense amount of pain a headbut gave me.

All you can do is remain calm, also know that children can't learn when heightened like that so there's no point reasoning with a child who is in that state. Contain them somewhere safe until they are calm and talk about it afterwards. Taking calm slow breaths yourself usually mean they will monitor you and trying move slowly and deliberately and not raising your voice. Like dealing with with a. Frightened animal.

Afterwards discussing what the feelings were and how better to deal with them. On repeat. It'll gradually improve. My eldest is neurodivergent but I think trauma causes a lot of similar behaviour (he has some medical trauma too so may be part of his issue)