AIBU to think upper middle class professionals downplay how much they game education?

[MyCyanAnt]

I can’t be the only one who has noticed this. I went to genuinely average comprehensive schools and had parents who just dgaf like most in UK. I went to medical school where it seemed like this upbringing put you in a small minority, now an ultra high earner from own business but still do part time work as a GP. DC are 12 and 14.

Whenever the topic of education comes up with other doctors/professionals they will say stuff like it’s the child not the school who determines the outcome, we’re not pushing DC, we’re letting DC pick their school etc

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is. It won’t always be Eton but it will almost always be either a private, grammar or high performing comp in expensive catchment area instead of a genuinely average comp.

It’s a similar story with paying for tutors and other parents DC being interested in prestigious but completely unrelated careers e.g. Doctor or investment banking who have obviously been guided by parents.

I do the same but I feel like I’m an outlier in that I don’t lie about it, I’m obviously paying/gaming things so DC are much more likely to get a top job. I don’t see what’s wrong with admitting it yet it’s such a sensitive subject with some.

Yes, they had books, visited museums, had music lessons and I made sure they did their homework. Sixth form was nothing special for the first three, the last one went to a large very successful sixth form college so that may be true in his case.
One thing they did learn from going to the local comp was to work independently. They weren’t spoon fed and when they got to university this was a big advantage over many of the private school pupils they came across. I think it is largely the child that determines the results they get, there may be school effects at the margins but that would be getting a 9 rather than an 8 at GCSE not a pupil struggling to get a 4 at a state school getting a 9 at an independent. Universities will take account of the average results of the school attended when making offers.

Oh yeah it’s just nonsense. I find this kind of thing really boring to be part of conversation with. It’s just very disingenuous.

And it’s like what do you want me to say. So you just go hmm, ahh yeahhh. Yeahh. Really great. Great

I think some of this is just lack of context for them.

I had a family say this to me: their ds chose Marlborough over Winchester! Maybe that does feel relaxed to them.

OP may I ask what is ultra high earning ? Just curious ! Is it like 100k plus or are we talking multiple hundreds or even millions ?

This is another reason I left out. There is absolutely a lot of denial around having this type of privilege, so they get very defensive about the notion of it (we see them creeping into the comments already)

Especially when they are HENRYs rather than the upper wealth classes, or more newly rich from entrepreneurship, they think acknowledging this takes away from their hard work and the conversation is always personal to them.

Sorry, no names named, but for a few years now, certain hard-working privileged children did not even apply to a certain university for medicine and law, because this university counted private school education against them, using a special questionnaire to bump up UCAS points. For example, the following questions were used for grading:

• are you LGBTQ+
• are you from one of the following deprivation index postcode?
• is English not your first language
• Are you from a household where parents are migrants/asylum seekers
• Are you a migrant or asylum seeker
• Are you care experienced
• Household income

etc.

Good point. I hadn't considered that. I'm fairly quiet about DC having tutoring. Not secretive, but I don't go on about it.

So they didn't want to be rated on a level playing field.

Very very interesting. So much for 'natural ability' when the life chances are entered into the equation.

I think people confuse "working hard" and "working to make money"

Someone who works to become or stay privileged or wealthy does not work less hard than someone else, just towards a different goal. People just assume you can only work hard if you get no money. It's not true.

It's about your mindset and your goal not really your privilege.

Yes. It's like the people who say "I didn't revise" before an exam when they bloody well did. Claiming not to be bothered about where their child goes to school, then hey presto they're in an out of catchment grammar or a private school with a long waiting list. Maybe they are hoping for less competition?

To that end - and this will upset a lot of posters - but sahms can work "really hard."

To turn this around a bit: all these parents striving for the best for their kids, i get it, i truly do. However, what are their views on other parents? The ones who can't afford private schools, the ones who can't afford a good catchment area?

Is the view that these parents don't care? Indeed, some parents don't care. I totally understand wanting to avoid being educated alongside kyle and jayden, who misbehave in class and don't do their homework. It's not ok for Jeremy and Jemima, they are meant for better things. But lots of good kids do have their education disrupted due to where they happen to live.

Are the middle class parents happy to push other parents out of the way and trample on other kids aspirations, just to further their own ends?

It's pretty despicable behaviour, which is probably why they play it down. Would I do it if the opportunity presented itself? Probably yes.

I know someone who beggared themselves to send their kids to private school. (Trying to buy an advantage). They were absolutely spitting nails regarding other friends who bought a more expensive house in an excellent catchment area. They accused them of gaming the system, and trying to buy an advantage. They were incandescent that there would probably be a better financial return on the house value, than on paying school fees.

Just by being born into an educated family your children are already at an advantage - their vocabulary will be better, their diet will be better, they are more likely to have lots of varied experiences, they will be read to and books will surround them. They will take for granted that qualifications will results in rewards. They will be surrounded by people in good jobs. That’s before you factor in the school choice part. My children recognise that privilege, they went to a comp (we moved as didn’t want to send to private), it had mixed catchment but those that wanted to achieve weren’t ridiculed by their peers. There’s great clubs where we live - guides, scouts, sports etc and lots of outdoor space.
Being born into a middle class educated family is an all round advantage.
As a society we should be supporting less privileged parts of society to better parent from birth. Get rid of private schools and improve the value of comprehensive education for all (don’t get me started on grammar and faith state schools).

I think you're overlooking the fact that even if the parents ostensibly give them a choice of school, for instance, they will still be influenced by their perceptions of what their parents think.

Also, if they are mixing with kids of a similar background whose parents do take a more hands on approach in picking 'superior' options, and the ones with laid back parents want to be with their friends they will follow suit regardless of the educational implications.

None of those questions relate to what type of school they attended.
Getting "extra points" for overcoming adversity is ok in my book and makes the playing field level.

This . You can go to any school you want “out of these carefully researched, respected, academic 5 schools”. I bet the sinking/inadequate comp never features. Or even good/average ones going by some posters. Or a vaguely accredited arts /performing school. Or a carpentey apprenticeship amongst the A level options , uni options.

One of our Jaden’s was doing GCSE work in y6! 😬

They won't "succeed anywhere" if that anywhere is a crap sink comp and they suffer daily disruption, bullying etc. That's what people don't realise. You don't know what the crap comps are like until you (or your kids) go to one!

These kinds of comments do grate. We’re working class. My kid has , does, gets most of that thank you very much. Other than the good diet, but that’s because she’s fussy as fuck.

As previously stated I don’t really think the average Brit cares very much. Of course this is not universal, first gen immigrants are a very obvious exception

Now you sound even sillier.

However when it comes down to it none of them ever put their money where their mouth is
Well it's true where I am!

DC attended a below average comprehensive that was a mix of professional children, children from non working parents and anything in between. Attended another average college for A levels. Picked it over a well performing one that would have meant about 90 minutes travelled either way. Decided the time was better spent doing medical related volunteering activity.

About 3 to 5 children each year make it to medical school. Not high but it happens and yes, all those kids are naturally very clever. They also have no trouble adjusting to medical school, appeared to be better equipped than some of their privately educated fellow.

Some medical schools have much higher ratio of privately educated pupils than others. Those rates best are not directly linked with either.

OP, wrong choice of words. It is not 'gaming'. It is 'prioritising'.

Yes where your kids go to school makes a big difference. No one should be judged for doing the best they can for their kids. We dis indeed take a new job and move into a good school catchment area. I am quite open on this. I do on occasion meet some quite left wing professional people who jave dome exa tly the same thing but deny it. Or move catchment area and then slag off anyone who has gone private. This I find very hypocritical

I'm so so grateful my kids went to a comp that allowed them to be exposed to what was a closed as can be to a representation of society in England. Clever people were not bullied but neither considered special.

Teachers did pick up their potential and helped as they could but no more than pupils with SEN. Kids who choose to study medicine from these sort of schools are much more likely to do so because of a genuine interest in medicine rather than for the status. It makes them so much more grounded and emotional mature than some privately educated pupils.

However, not every kid who gave gone to private school are brought up with an attitude of privilege either. My friend's 4 kids went private from Y7. All worked PT from 16yo, all had to pay towards their driving lessons and tests, all had crappy cars to start with, and not all have gone to elitist professions but jobs they enjoy and pay okay.

Life is not all black and white thankfully. I guess it does come down who you hang with and make friends with.