AIBU to wonder why we care so much about overcrowding of prisons?

[Ellie126]

Just that really. It’s prison. For people that have committed horrific crimes. Why are we giving it a second thought? Granted, I know some crimes are less ‘severe’ than others but they should still serve the sentence they were given. I can’t believe this is even a political issue right now!

if overcrowding is really issue, should capital punishment be given to the most SERIOUS offenders? For example for the two men that abused and assaulted that poor adopted boy. If they’re taking up space… that would solve the issue? They have no place in society and we certainly shouldn’t be worried if they feel cramped!!

“I imagine if you sign up to be a prison officer, one is aware of the risks involved. Just like if you’re in the military etc”.

Jesus Christ OP. Read that back to yourself. It’s both unacceptable to release prisoners early, and at the same time, completely unacceptable to put law abiding workers at increased risk.

I watched the news back in the day when my dad’s colleague was held hostage and on the roof of one of Scotland’s jails. If conditions are inhumane, behaviour is inhumane and consequences are inhumane. Your solution is not the answer.

Just because you say most are not murderers, that definitely means some are.

You didn't answer whether you've ever had a family member or a friend murdered or affected by a violent crime.
The debate will rage on forever because there are those that say people who kill others should be hung and removed from society forever.

Thank god I'm not responsible for all these decisions. Let someone else sort the mess out we are in. Not my problem thankfully. I can well understand why it's hard to fill staff vacancies though. Let those that are paid to. make these decisions sort it.
I cannot imagine many people when they have their careers talk at school saying they want to be a prison officer .

You are unlikely today to go to prison for not paying a fine.

I dunno. You could ill-advisedly sent a hurty tweet about it.

My DH's cousin was murdered. He doesn't advocate treating prisoners less than humanely.

Because we care about prison officers. Because we care about rehabilitation. Because the punishment is loss of liberty, not being badly treated while incarcerated.

What do you do with the ones you get wrong ?

I mean if you are happy to maltreat one innocent in 1000. Or 100. Or 10 even own it.

In the last few years I have come in to contact with a number of people who have been in prison after committing crime related to addiction. Prisoners are not a heterogeneous group, and so hope we treat them should be nuanced. For one thing, women get harsher penalties than men, which is just wrong. For another, amount of losses such as money stolen, plays a part in sentences. Personally I would rather see someone who walked into an elderly persons house, took £20 out of their purse and pushed them over when they were discovered (as happened to my gran) locked up, than someone who has never been violent but embezzled a lot of money. But you have to consider motivation and history too. Are we trying to rehabilitate people so they don't reoffend? Or punish them? Because each calls for very different things. Rehabilitation preference doesn't make you a bleeding heart, it's what the evidence shows is most effective to cut further offending. And realistically, there will never be enough prisoners for all offenders.

I don't think anyone, even someone who looks like a hardened offender , is sanguine about prison. I have seen a lot of people with PTSD from incarceration who are desperate not to go back.

In the last few years I have come in to contact with a number of people who have been in prison after committing crime related to addiction.

Well shit drugs laws lead to shit outcomes.

I'm of the same opinion OP. Like if conditions are that bad, why not just go find some random field, put a fence round it and some tents in it and make it a prison? Yes it will look like a camp from Germany but if this is the genuine situation we are in, where we are so overcrowded we are talking about releasing prisoners early...lets just deal with how it looks and build the camp. ultimately all prison has to do is keep inmates alive.

They used to do that in America, Texas I think. The prisoners had to wear pink overalls and lived in tents. But the "human rights" lot get involved and it got shut down.

Is the poster wrong then.
They do t have those things?

“The human rights lot”. AKA people who care about human rights?

People who aren't in prison have human rights too. Does the widow of PC Andrew Harper not have the right to live her life safe with the knowledge that the murderers of her husband are still safely locked up?

If we have to choose and assign a pecking order as to who has rights in preference to others, and whose rights are prioritised, I vote that the rights of normal law abiding people are more important than the rights of prisoners.

People who aren't in prison have human rights too. Does the widow of PC Andrew Harper not have the right to live her life safe with the knowledge that the murderers of her husband are still safely locked up?

Justice and Vengeance have a different score in scrabble for a reason.

The verdict was manslaughter, not murder.

Yes but that's debatable.
If they'd given themselves up instead of trying to escape when caught PC Harper would be hear and they would have probably got a slap on the wrists for stealing a quad bike
Brainless creatures.
Ruin their lives and others.

Should also have extra added on for laughing and smirking when they were being transferred to the prison van. It's put there for all to see sadly.

Dregs of society. Parents must be proud

It’s not up for debate. They were tried and convicted for manslaughter. A murder charge wouldn’t have stuck.

Yes sadly that's what happens when you get jury members who are thick and cannot interpret info and evidence.

They might not have set out that night to murder anyone but when you drag someone for a mile clearly they then had the intent.

Oh but no it was manslaughter not up for debate!

I really hope they don't release those feral arseholes early.

What's wrong with tents and pink overalls? Could understand if they were forced to live outdoors without tents or clothing but seems ok to me.

Murdered, no. Victims of violent crime, yes (several)..

The point I was trying to make is that we should not equate everyone in prison with the most extreme criminals.

And I don't think that I, or my family or friends, will be made safer by making prison conditions as violent and inhumane as possible. Rather the reverse.

We might be safer if detection and conviction for certain crimes were made more likely.

It's like that bloke who only got 'manslaughter' for killing his wife. He'd dug a grave in the woods, history of violence how much more intention did the jury need!
They should do a basic comprehension assessment for jurors that they need to pass before being allowed to sit.

Why shouldnt they be treated like animals and i agree with OP that capital punishment should be brought back for serious crimes.

Britain needs a tougher stance on crime in general and there should be instant long sentences for carrying knifes, assaulting officers, shoplifting, house burglary, driving an excessive speed like over 100mph, and absolutly anything to do with child abuse or even a hint of beast like behavior and anything else that is a gateway crime to more serious crimes - like 5 years minimum with no chance of parole.

I think something like when theyre in there they should be educated to full apprenticeship or degree level to be eligible for parole and for each level of education reached they can move up from less animal like conditions/prisons with cramped conditions and no technology into more civilised settings like their own cell with a tv alongside fellow prisoners who are working through their education.

Maybe also some form of military cadet type situation that they also have to complete before release that maybe an agreement is setuo that they can go straight into the military if they want upon release.

So that when they leave they can at least have some way of supporting themselves and theyll feel a sense if achievment. They'll have a degree or trade, be physically fit and strong and the option to be streamlined into the.military after their years of training

Theyll at least have a chance then at life.

I also think top level fitness should be standard in general fir all, like military fitness standard tests on a regular basis and sanctions if they fail and benefits if they pass.

But i think they should all start in animal like conditions as a deterrant to commiting crime and yes capital punishment for the worst crimes like murder whether you meant it or not so that includes driving like your on a race track and killing another innocent driver or pedestrian, anything to do with interfering with kids and i think rape too. Anything thats truly despicable behaviour, you dont get a 2nd chance.

Ive met people.who think being in jail is better than being out of it becasue it is an easier lifestyle. They come out to nothing, cant work, have to cook and clean for themselves and budget their limited money - thats too difficult for them when compared to some comfortable experiences in jail.

Thats my opinion anyway.

'And I don't think that I, or my family or friends, will be made safer by making prison conditions as violent and inhumane as possible. Rather the reverse'

It's how some are defining inhumane that is the problem. I think as long as fed, sheltered and protected from attack that should suffice. I don't think it matters if their entertainment isn't up to scratch, or have an extra cellmate or if they don't like the colour of the outfits issued. That isn't inhumane surely?

I don't think anyone was referring to entertainment, or appearance of clothing, or one extra cell-mate. It's overcrowding to the point that prisoners end up like 'rats in a sack' and violence between prisoners cannot be controlled, and staff also get put in danger, meaning that few people apply to be prison officers and the situation just goes from bad to worse.