AIBU to wonder why we care so much about overcrowding of prisons?

[Ellie126]

Just that really. It’s prison. For people that have committed horrific crimes. Why are we giving it a second thought? Granted, I know some crimes are less ‘severe’ than others but they should still serve the sentence they were given. I can’t believe this is even a political issue right now!

if overcrowding is really issue, should capital punishment be given to the most SERIOUS offenders? For example for the two men that abused and assaulted that poor adopted boy. If they’re taking up space… that would solve the issue? They have no place in society and we certainly shouldn’t be worried if they feel cramped!!

Because we care about the Prison Officers having to work in those over crowded prisons who are dealing with the issues over crowding inevitably causes.

Maybe it negatively affects the prison staff? They deserve a decent work environment. I’m not sure of specifics but overcrowding could mean more infectious disease, more risk of violence and prison buildings failing sooner (mould etc) .

They won’t even be on an overcrowded wing, they’ll be in a segregated wing for‘vulnerable’ offenders for their own protection.

overcrowding in normal wings will give rise to extra violence, more time spent locked up and higher rates of self harm and suicide.

Why should we care? Because we live in a civilised society not under a regime of terror.

Better prison conditions, education and treatment are far more likely to result in long term rehabilitation than treating people like they have no worth or hope whatsoever. It’s complicated.

But please carry on with the DM type They Deserve All They Get.

1. Because just because people have committed crimes doesn't mean they automatically deserve to be treated worse than animals. The way a society treats people at the bottom of the social hierarchy is a fairly good barometer of its decency
2. Because treating people worse than animals in prison makes it far more likely they will reoffend when released, thus costing the taxpayer more
3. Because overcrowding tends to lead to poor hygiene, raising the risk of infectious disease, and frustration, raising the risk of violence (both of which pose a public safety hazard and potentially increase the cost to the taxpayer)
4. Because many people who have never committed a crime have to work in prisons (including managing very dangerous people) and it's reasonable that their safety and welfare should be taken into consideration

I could go on but hopefully you get the picture...

I 100% agree that capital punishment should be given if there is irrefutable evidence that the person has committed the crime.

should capital punishment be given to the most SERIOUS offenders?

Like Ruth Ellis? The Birmingham Six?

People usually don’t stay in prison for the rest of their lives. How do you want them to function and behave when they get out?

because in a civilised society, prevention of crime starts with rehabilitation. Most people in prison are capable of being rehabilitated and not reoffending, this is not possible in a crowded, underfunded prison

Capital punishment is an abomination which does not belong in a civilised country. No one should have a job description which includes killing someone.

Overcrowding: number one, prisons should also be civilised places. The punishment is to have your freedom taken away, not to be treated like an animal. Prisons shouldn't be luxurious, but they should respect a person's basic human needs - yes, even the most heinous offender's.

Number two: prison staff need to be given the conditions to be able to treat the prisoners correctly and to be safe themselves. Furthermore, other prisoners also need to be kept safe.

Some of us care about human rights

Prisons are too soft. Most who go in and leave go on to commit more crimes.

They get treated better than the poor and homeless, a roof, three meals a day, warm bed and a tv. Gyms some even have games consoles.

like a freaking holiday for the homeless that would be.

1. They have to do something, otherwise they will run out of space and then newly convicted people, even of the most serious offenses, would not be able to be held. Also the whole system (police stations, courts etc) will fall over if there's no space. The policticians should have been trying to sort this for at least a decade.

2. not everyone in prison has committed a serious offense.

3. over-crowding makes life harder for the prison staff and increases the risk of riots and therefore serious injury or death of officers

4. overcrowding decreases the ability for prisons to do rehabilitation. Prison is a punishment and also acts a means of keeping dangerous offenders out of society, but to stop a revolving door of less serious offenses there also needs to be rehabilition. To reduce this could cause a bigger issue later on.

5. if we decided as a society we wanted to bring back the death penalty (there are many many considerations around this), it would not be a quick fix with appeals etc. It also couldn't be applied retrospectively so would only affect future numbers not solve the time-critical space issue now.

I'd add in long term mental health issues.
Prisoners are licked in cells for 22 hours a day. What state do you think their physical and mental health will be on release?
How many do you think will fall through the cracks, be released and go on to seriously injure/kill someone? There's a lack of education and psychological support as it is, within prisons.

Thank you! I do understand to some extent and I am sorry that proson officers have to work in poor conditions but ultimately it is a prison and not a hotel. I’m not saying they should be treated worse than animals BUT the whole point of prison is that they lose any sort of ‘decent’ lifestyle. Also could making prisons ‘less crowded’ or ‘nicer’ might actually be incentive for them to re-offend? As they don’t have to do much for themselves in the outside world. Just playing devils advocate really

It is the deprivation of liberty that should be the punishment. Not living in squalid, dangerous conditions where violent drug dealers run the show, intimidating vulnerable prisoners and staff alike.

There should be the opportunity for rehabilitation but look at the numbers who reoffend and end back up inside.

Most prisoners are eventually released, we want them to reintegrate positively with society. Poor prison conditions make this less likely.

Prison overcrowding increases the likelihood of disease outbreaks. There is no guarantee these will not spread to the wider population.

You can want good prison conditions from an entirely selfish perspective. It does impact the law-abiding public.

Also poor mental health increases the likelihood of prisoners turning to drugs to escape their situation for a while. Having an addiction also makes reoffending more likely.

This is kindve my point! There are homeless people lining our streets (those who haven’t committed crimes) and yet we are worried about underfunding criminals who like you say, if treated too nicely in prison will likely re-offend to have the ‘luxury’ of prison rather than trying to contribute to society and the economy

Absolutely right

yabvu OP

How about when there are so many they run riot, break out and attack staff.

It’s awful but I’ve watched so many films where this is depicted. So surely there just what prison is? It’s not fair on staff, absolutely not. Should they then be given more ‘powers’ to take control as a solution?

That isn’t the point of prison. They’re sent there aspunishment, not for it. And poor treatment would lead to violence against prison officers.

It’s always irrefutable until it turns out not to have been

I see it as what’s actually the deterrent because prison isn’t clearly otherwise crime wouldn’t be happening as such a rate our prisons are too full as it is.

I mean hell the prisoners even seem to be able to often and freely get to have sex with staff looking at the papers in the last year of women officers sleeping with the crooks 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ sharing it all on their mobile phones.

Drugs… doing such a good job at keeping the drugs out of prisons anit we 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ if you can’t stay clean in jail where there shouldn’t even be drugs you anit going to be clean on the outside.

I don't care much about the human rights of people who have sexually abused and tortured women and children. I would 100% support the return of the death penalty when it's 100% proved someone is guilty of certain crimes.