AIBU to wonder why we care so much about overcrowding of prisons?

[Ellie126]

Just that really. It’s prison. For people that have committed horrific crimes. Why are we giving it a second thought? Granted, I know some crimes are less ‘severe’ than others but they should still serve the sentence they were given. I can’t believe this is even a political issue right now!

if overcrowding is really issue, should capital punishment be given to the most SERIOUS offenders? For example for the two men that abused and assaulted that poor adopted boy. If they’re taking up space… that would solve the issue? They have no place in society and we certainly shouldn’t be worried if they feel cramped!!

I'm not sure if @PetulaGordeno is expressing her own opinion or describing how she thinks @Ellie126 feels.

This again. Why all the threads about how anyone in prison should just be hanged or treated like shit? Clearly zero concept of how this makes things worse rather than better and about who actually makes up most of the prison population

Obviously racism is bad, obviously allegedly inciting violence is bad. My point is it should not equal a custodial sentence as prisons are full. Judges need to wake up and do whatever is needed to change sentencing guidelines.

Holy fuck, you are broken.

Prisons are grim, whether you have access to a TV and three meals a day or not. Have you ever been in one?

We need to reduce rates of reoffending, not brutalise people to the extent they know nothing but violence.

Have you seen any documentaries based in some of the prisons in the US or South America, with cells full of men?

We are in the UK. We believe in human rights. Yes a lot of people in prison absolutely deserve to be there, for life. I’m glad I live in a country where we do not tolerate treating people like they are not human.

If the prisons continue to be overcrowded, eventually they will be full. Then what will we do?

Surely the punishment is being removed from society? And not mental torture

Judges aren't in charge of sentencing guidelines.

She incited racial hatred at a time when racists were attacking and attempting to burn down hotels housing asylum seekers.

Do you defend all racists or just the ones married to tory councillors?

Irrefutable evidence is a fallacy, the burden of proof is "beyond a reasonable doubt".

Human perception, scientific testing etc changes. Look at the statistics for wrongly convicted and/or and executed in America.

Then look at the recidivism rate of countries that treat their prisoners with respect and understanding of why the crimes are committed.

Its comforting to think we can lock people up in appalling conditions and not think about them again, but the majority will come back into society.

You think films are real life?

Human beings have human rights. Even offenders.

'A society should be judged not by how it treats its outstanding citizens but by how it treats its criminals.'

The whole point is loss of liberty not loss of lifestyle.

Overcrowding leads to all sorts of problems, not just the prisoners themselves but things like the kitchens, they had to feed everyone each day, that food should be nutritious which is harder when you are cooking for more people than the kitchen is equipped for.

Education and / or work should be available to all prisoners, they form the basis of rehabilitation.

TVs and game consoles keep people quiet and for them not to be a nuisance, it's a lot cheaper than a lot of things.

I'm old enough to remember Strangeways 'blowing up'.

I was a victim liaison officer for a number of years. They're the ones who are having to inform victims the perpetrators are being released early. Victims are able to phone their VLO and have face to face meetings with them. I expect many will be doing so, expressing their fear and anger.

I can honestly say I am glad I'm not doing that job right now. I don't know how I could face victims and in any way try to defend what is happening. Or try to reassure them that they, and the wider public, will be safe.

I've sat down with many victims over the years (or their families in cases of murder) and there were times I would go home and cry. Obviously in front of them I was completely professional, but I'm not a robot. I'm not sure how anyone could not be affected by the level of pain I saw.

I understand all the arguments about overcrowded prisons, rehabilitation etc. But ultimately a criminal chooses to be a criminal, regardless of what led them to it, it is always a choice. A victim doesn't choose to be a victim.

I think a lot of people struggle with how justice as opposed to vengeance work,

Maybe we should all work together and get the government to rename the ministry of justice the ministry of vengeance (and then watch in no amazement as Donald Trump thinks it's a great idea).

Department of Vengeance - I imagine you could have a really natty logo with a crossed blowtorch and pliers.

I think its important to remember that 69% of women in prison and 62% of men have committed non violent crime. So stereotyping the whole prison population as the lowest form of humanity and therefore don't deserve basic living standards is wrong.
Shoplifting, breach of curfew, public nuisance offences should be punished, but its questionable whether a custodial sentence is the most appropriate anyway (as oppose to reparation/rehabilitation) never mind the most draconian conditions we can dream up.
Personally I think incarceration should be used where the person presents a danger to society, and other punishments used for those that don't. So if anyone is to be released, which they're going to have to be, I'd get the petty criminsks out on tag doing community work before I'd consider reducing the sentences of dangerous and serious offenders.

Exactly this

We have put innocent people behind bars, we have jailed old ladies for peaceful protest, we lock up women co-erced and beaten by their partners, some people have been locked up for life for very minor crimes. We should act like a civilised society. When your child strays and commits at crime (or is accused of one) how would you want them to be treated?

But ultimately a criminal chooses to be a criminal, regardless of what led them

You of course then remember that "a criminal" is just what the government of the day say they are. It's not some property that exists in a vacuum.

We have put innocent people behind bars,

Don't feel to bad. It's not like they get any compensation now.

Not sure why you're missing the point here and trying to goad me. I'm not defending alleged racists and I dont care who they are married to.

I'll try again as you're struggling. Sentencing guidelines needs a review clearly, judges need to instigate that or get someone else to if they are so powerless. I don't care who does it.

The answer is not to release violent prisoners early, the answer is proportionate sentencing in the first place.

Custodial sentences should be for violent and/or repeat serious offences. Not tweets, not alleged incitement.

There are already too many criminals on our streets that should be locked up. Early sentencing and non-jailing will just lead to more crime, when it is already at record levels.

It's crazy isn't it. I fully support massive fines, tags, 3000 hours of community service. I'm not suggesting anyone gets off scot free. Just save prison for the violent repeat offenders

And what about those who ignore their tags and refuse to do the community service? Do they get jailed?

Being in prison is the punishment. Making that experience unbearable due to overcrowding is cruel and counter-productive- part of the aim of prison is rehabilitation, which isn't going to happen if you have no regard to the well-being of prisoners, which means they will simply commit more crimes when released and end up back in prison again- more risk to the general public, more expense for the taxpayer and a wasted life for the prisoner.

I'd support a complete overhaul of the system to make it closer to the prison experience in the Netherlands or Scandinavia, with a pragmatic approach aimed at improving outcomes rather than being punitive.

I'm not a bleeding heart - I think crimes should be punished.

But prison IS punishment in itself - it's not for further punishment.

There are all sorts of people in prison. Some are hardened sadists, yes, but others are people who've had a rotten childhood and perhaps learning difficulties or other mental issues. These people have to do their sentence but they shouldn't be treated as sub-human.

As I said, I'm not a lenient sort of person but I'm anti death penalty and would always hope that prisoners experience some kind of reforming experience and are not just brutalised further.