AIBU to wonder why we care so much about overcrowding of prisons?

[Ellie126]

Just that really. It’s prison. For people that have committed horrific crimes. Why are we giving it a second thought? Granted, I know some crimes are less ‘severe’ than others but they should still serve the sentence they were given. I can’t believe this is even a political issue right now!

if overcrowding is really issue, should capital punishment be given to the most SERIOUS offenders? For example for the two men that abused and assaulted that poor adopted boy. If they’re taking up space… that would solve the issue? They have no place in society and we certainly shouldn’t be worried if they feel cramped!!

It infuriates me that the public are paying the price for our useless governments and then rather than condemn that, people actually go to the effort of making excuses as to why we need to release serious criminals, some of the very worst people in our society, early.

We squabble amongst ourselves when we should focus on the bigger picture, its unacceptable that over crowding or putting the public at risk, are the only options.

@ what about the human rights of the victims?

@supercrone what about the human rights of the victims?

Because the prison officers, OSG’s, Sessional lecturers, manual contractors, nurses, doctors, EPs, chaplains and so on don’t deserve to work in a violent and very fraught environment. Whilst yes, that’s the nature of the job, there are a lot of good people just trying to make a living who work there for a pittance because it’s the only job left in their town. They don’t deserve it!

I'm deeply sad to see UK society become so gripped by savagery as is demonstrated on this thread. Sadly I think you guys have to sink to the bottom to learn what results for a society that doesn't respect human life. I'm sorry to see it. You were once a decent society.

People seem to think that human rights are something that can be divided up. These people can have them but those people can't. It doesn't work like that. Unfortunately I think that you may find out, when you have all had your rights ripped from you.

This ^

Human rights mean nothing unless they are inalienable which means you keep them whatever the situation..anything else and you'd have vast injustice because of exemptions, mistakes, prejudice, stigma etc. ..see for example masked unidentified men taking people from US streets.

Prison is deprivation of liberty not a deliberate extra punishment via inhumane environment (though it already is) ...unless you want to create society hating monsters...many of these men have LD and have lived appalling life circumstances and need education abd rehabilitation (@30% of the male UK population are convicted of a crime)

Prison overcrowding has incentivised greater credit for those who plea guilty without going to trial, less of most sentences are actually served in prisons (for some crimes, it's 40% before released), and the sentencing guidelines shifting to more suspended sentences and community orders so more of those criminals are being punished in the community.

So, if you want more people to be locked up for their crimes to service their time, you should be against overcrowding.

Also, quite a few of our prisons are private. They've little incentive to accept overcrowding for government refusal to allow more to be built.

Also could making prisons ‘less crowded’ or ‘nicer’ might actually be incentive for them to re-offend? As they don’t have to do much for themselves in the outside world. Just playing devils advocate really

We have the data from several countries showing that better prisons focused on rehabilitation lowers reoffending rates.

Like the grooming gang victims?

And those two poor girls where the case had to have the sentence reviewed because the judge gave zero prison time because he didn’t want to criminalise them smh

Wonder what percentage of prisoners don't reoffend and become useful members of soxiety

Prison is about rehabilitation how can offenders be rehabilitated in the conditions they are subjected too?

Its not just about rehabilitation but ok, how will they be rehabilitated by being released early?

The question was about overcrowding, nothing else?

nice one OP. What's tomorrow's topic, mobility cars or free school meals?

The government's solution to over crowding is to release prisoners early, so its a perfectly relevant question.

Exactly.

If you haven’t seen “inside Barlinne” I would advise you to do so.

Drug (and alcohol) addiction is behind so many of the crimes and criminals. If we want people to not re-offend we need to be prepared to invest in decent rehabilitation inside prison, and good support on the outside. You can’t manage drugs in prison, and run a rehabilitation service inside, if the place is overcrowded.

The number of people with undiagnosed and untreated Mental Health conditions is huge .. again this takes money inside, and outside, of prison to solve.

OP, have you spent much time in a prison?

Most prisons don’t manage it at all let’s face it. They can’t even stop prisoners getting phones smuggled in let alone drugs and making their own hooch.

Don’t lump all prisoners together. There are some who have committed very serious offences but if know you anything about prisons you will know that it’s actually category A and above who often have better conditions.
There are many, many people in prisons, men and women, who have had a terrible, traumatic start in life who have become a involved in petty crime and quite a significant proportion of prisoners are ex-forces. Those are people who signed up to serve and protect us.
So many in the prison population now are there because of drugs. Whether being involved with selling them or because they are addicts. Not here to defend them, but it’s such a huge issue that’s hard to get a handle on.
Shoving prisoners into overcrowded conditions makes it even worse for prison officers and support staff. It’s not a job I would want, and they need our support.
No, prison isn’t a hotel, and yes, some people see it as a badge of honour and enjoy the notoriety. What a sad way that is to live.
However, I do think we need to provide sanitary conditions in prisons where prisoners are treated as human beings, even the ones who haven’t behaved as such. Does a part of me want the death penalty back? After reading some recent cases, yes, but if you look at the U.S. it’s not a deterrent and just ends up with prisoners on death row.

Its not just about rehabilitation but ok, how will they be rehabilitated by being released early?

They possibly won't - that's why there are guidelines on short sentences to encourage suspending sentences if there is prospect of 'rehabilitation in the community' as they're unlikely to do so in prison on short sentences - but they're being released early because of overcrowding, not to rehabilitate.

There isn't the space so criminals are released partway through their sentence on license for the remainder. Sentencing guidelines are updated in part to try to deal with the practical limitations of our prisons so different crimes get a different amount of credit if they plead guilty and then a different percentage of time spent in prison vs on license.

If you want prisoners to be rehabilitated in prisons, there needs to be spaces in prisons to do so.

I mean you're pointing out the obvious here rather than address my comment in the context of what I was replying to.

Absolutely. It horrifies me and makes me very grateful I have relatively little time left on this planet.

100% proof of committed a crime is impossible. Look at all the people who have served years and then it was proven to be a miscarriage of justice - Birmingham Six, Andrew Malkinson and many more. I’m sure much of the country would have welcomed the death penalty for Lucy Letby…and now it’s looking more likely as if she was the scapegoat for NHS failures and an incompetent expert witness. We should never bring back the death penalty - no
civilised society should.