I dislike who ds has become after not getting football scholarship

[neostone]

Im at my wits end. My eldests are twin boys they’re 17 next month, they were close up until secondary school and they have had some sort of rivalry since with everything from friends, girls, football etc

At 15 they had a falling out because ds2 had been messaging his brothers gf in a flirty way which is said was a joke and he didn't fancy her. Then after they broke up (not due to ds2 messages u didn't think but u didn't know 100%) ds2 then told a lie about how eldest was in a relationship with a girl in year 8, and their relationship hasn't been the same since. They share a room to make matters worse

Last year ds1 signed a scholarship with a professional football team and ever since then theres more jealousy as ds2 didn't and lost his place at his college due to behaviour and low attendance. He doesn't care, he's quite academic and was predicted grades higher than his brother like 7s/8s but he got very low grades in his real exams and couldn't do A levels either which was due to him not trying and caring more about girls and drama

His behaviour has completely gone off the rails and he smokes weed, stays out Tim all hours and disturb us all when he gets home usually drunk and high and just isn't a nice person to be around

Eldest has broke his collarbone which means He can't play football for a bit and ds2 keeps goading him and sort of laughing at the fact he can't play football and then when he was in the wrong and his brother hit him (ds1 does have a temper) acted like the innocent one and how everyone else is in the wrong which is his problem, he takes no accountability and acts like everyone else is ad fault

Ds1 is currently resting in their room and the arguments have been worse, their room is a tip and ds2 is picking on himas I've refused to give him any money and he has no phone currently due to him smashing it and I've told him he can wait until his birthday for it to be fixed which goes not happy about.

Their room is a tip and I'm exhausted and at my wits end with them both right now!

Sorry for any errors in typing on my phone

If anyone has any questions i’ll answer i didn’t want to make this post too long as havent wrote everything down

Are there any other brothers they can share with? Could you sleep in the living room but still store your stuff in the bedroom? Could they have the biggest room and create a temporary partition or screen?

Are any of the younger children boys, and if so could you could swap rooms around so at least one of the twins shares with a different sibling for now? It's not ideal, but I don't think it's unreasonable to tell DS2 he's moving rooms if he's refusing to shut up about his brother not being able to play football. Otherwise, learn to tune out their sniping at each other and at you, unless it's escalated to abuse. If they have nowhere else to go they'll have to decide for now if they'd rather squabble or give each other a little peace and quiet in the room in exchange for the same.

Tell them to clean their room by tomorrow night; no excuses. If DS1 is unfit because of his injuries, you or their other parent can offer to help DS2 do it this one time. Chances are they'll do it themselves if the alternative is having Mum and/or Dad supervise them doing it and if they know there will be consequences for missing the deadline. Set the expectation that it will STAY clean from now on - doesn't necessarily have to up to your personal standards but reasonably safe and sanitary.

Was DS2's messaging DS1's girlfriend a "joke" between DS2 and the gf, or a joke ON the gf? If the latter, I'd be worried that that plus the lies about the other girl might be a sign of misogyny that needs to be addressed.

What is DS2 doing about being kicked out of college? That should be his biggest concern right now, especially as you say he can't work, and his focus on that should be so consuming that he shouldn't have much time for girls, weed, and harassing his brother.

Sounds very dysfunctional. I agree that family therapy is needed, or you’ll have a lifetime of bitterness & jealousy between them both.

The only brother one could realistically share with is 13 but I don't want ds2 to share with him as he’ll just carry on the same behaviours with ds3 and I don't want him sharing a room because of the weed and the fact ds3 is easily led so I don't want him leaving weed in their room or anything plus he’ll disrupt him when he gets home as ds3 room is only big enough for a bunk bed or he’ll then kick off if he ds1 has his own room. If ds1 shares then ds2 will learn kicking off gets his own way

DS1 and DS3 should share for now. DS2 needs support as well as punishment.

I dont see how that’d be useful though as it’ll show him that kicking off and being disrespectful to others gets him what he wants

You don’t see how giving him support would be useful?

Or it gives him space to decompress and rethink life, without affecting anyone else?
You seem to want to heap on more punishments which in my experience doesn’t help, it just drives a bigger wedge and makes them think there really is no point in conforming at all.

I would get them to research 5 career paths for each other, not including football, and what they would need to do to get on those paths, these two know each other better than anyone, make them appreciate their individual strengths, focus on the positives and start planting the seeds for the future.

there's a difference between not punishing him further and rewarding him, which is what giving him his own room when he's done least to deserve it, would be?

I mean, I agree that having their own space would definitely be preferable and would result in them fighting less, but if OP said it can't be done, it can't be done. 4 years is quite a big age span to have an 18 sharing with a 14 year old in a few months as well.

It can be done, and OP just doesn’t want to. By making them carry on sharing a room she’s punishing both of them. And 13 and 17 is not a big age gap, not sure where you got 18 from

If the boys can’t keep one bedroom tidy, then it’s pointless having a situation where two bedrooms are not kept in a reasonable state. I would tell DS2 to sign on for Jobseekers immediately as he has no other plan in place, and in the meantime, he starts to pull his weight in the family. It would be non negotiable whilst he’s under your roof. He’s got plenty of lip/energy that can be used on cleaning, entertaining siblings, cooking for the family…

It can be done though by moving other children into together, I assume the 13 year old has his own room?
You could argue why should the 13 year old get his own room when his larger siblings are having to share?
Having space is not a reward, but a necessity when you have two sharing that do not get on at all and who make life a misery for each other and everyone else.
I don’t say it lightly, we had a 3 bedroom house, 3 children. Oldest and middle one (16 months part) were sharing and the little one was in the box room.
Our older two fought continuously, making each other miserable, over stimulated and our lives were a nightmare.
We scrimped and saved and extended into the loft, everyone now has the space they need to get away from each other.
There is a reason one of the twins is behaving like he is, I very much doubt he enjoys being vile. More likely since not getting the scholarship and seeing his brother seemingly have it all, he’s lost his way.
The other twin is having an easier time of it despite the broken collar bone because he has been picked and is doing what I assume he loves.
There is an age gap which isn’t great for others to share either unless OP wants to sleep on a sofa bed and give someone her room for the next year or 2, something has to change and backing a person into a corner with more punishments when they probably already can’t seem to see a way out of the spiral doesn’t usually work.

He won’t be able to sign on for job seekers at 16/17. OP needs to support him and encourage to get some sort of education if anything

He can't get job seekers at 16 and he isn't 18 until August next year. My 13 year old has the smallest room in the house and it's the only fair way to do it letting him have his own room, if I had at any point made one twin share and give the other their own room id be accused of favouritism aand it'd further the rivalry.

I've already said the living room isn't an option

So you’re essentially saying there’s nothing you can do about all this?

what is your plan?

So what’s the plan then? You don’t want to discuss what support if any you are giving to DS2 and you don’t want to do the main suggestion from people on here… is it just a rant you needed?

There isn't anything I can do if he won't help himself. He had other plans for the future too so it's not like his heart was set on football because while he did love it he talked about wanting to go to uni etc. I pay for his gym membership monthly and don't get a thanks. I don't even know if he goes because while he says he's there he could be god knows where.

I've suggested he resit his exams and get told to fuck off, he doesn't have any plans. When it was just me and my younger 2 home with him during school time he'd complain if any of us woke him up even accidentally like baby crying etc and it was getting late and he's still the same now. He's gone out this evening with no phone or money, will probably get back in a few hours and wake everyone whereas ill be awake already and worrying about where he is

So don’t do anything then 🤷‍♀️

Sorry, he's becoming a monster. You really need to find some way to get through to him as well as set some ground rules and stick to them. If I had told my parents to fuck off, I'd have been severely punished.

Edited to add - weed can sap all the energy out of someone and also make a person depressed. This should stop asap.

I understand it looks that way but put DS2 in the smaller room and that at least means the others can live amicably. I’d consider not paying gym membership for DS2 as well - that’s earned, not a right. He needs to suffer consequences. Bolt the door if he is not back by a certain time maybe? I think there will be a few difficult confrontations but you can’t let him rule the roost.

I totally agree. This isn’t about punishing or rewarding your ds. He’s out of control, smoking weed. And none of your dcs should be made to share with him, including his twin.

His behaviour does need addressing of course. And giving your ds1 a better situation will hopefully give you some space to start tackling that.

He's 16, for heaven's sake.

‘Isn’t anything I can do’ is a really poor attitude to have.

OK, so DS2 has lost his way, basically, Sounds like you have some good raw material in him to work with. It sounds to me as if not getting a football scholarship, especially when his twin did, completely wrecked his confidence in his ability to achieve anything, and challenged his sense of himself. And then he didn't do well in his GCSEs, so badly that he couldn't go on to do A-levels. Then came the bad behaviour. Basically it sounds to me as if he spiralled after not getting the scholarship.

The first thing he needs to do is re-take his GCSEs. Not sure if he will need to re-take all, but he will need to re-take whatever he needs to do in order to get through to A-levels. Many further education colleges have one-year re-sit GCSEs programmes for those needing to improve their grades.

DS2 has completely lost his way imo, and he needs support to get back on track.

If you can afford it, some counselling around his feelings about the scholarship would probably help. They will give him some tools to be able to manage failure and not spiral.

I think people who experience early failure often go on to do really well. Walt Disney was fired from a newspaper for lack of ideas!

Anyway, you and DS2 need to look into getting him enrolled for GCSE retakes in September asap. Maybe he can do them at his old school.

Best of luck xxx

Edit: Just read your update about his reaction to retakes. Can you reason with him? Gently point out that his life options are going to be really limited without GCSEs?