I dislike who ds has become after not getting football scholarship

[neostone]

Im at my wits end. My eldests are twin boys they’re 17 next month, they were close up until secondary school and they have had some sort of rivalry since with everything from friends, girls, football etc

At 15 they had a falling out because ds2 had been messaging his brothers gf in a flirty way which is said was a joke and he didn't fancy her. Then after they broke up (not due to ds2 messages u didn't think but u didn't know 100%) ds2 then told a lie about how eldest was in a relationship with a girl in year 8, and their relationship hasn't been the same since. They share a room to make matters worse

Last year ds1 signed a scholarship with a professional football team and ever since then theres more jealousy as ds2 didn't and lost his place at his college due to behaviour and low attendance. He doesn't care, he's quite academic and was predicted grades higher than his brother like 7s/8s but he got very low grades in his real exams and couldn't do A levels either which was due to him not trying and caring more about girls and drama

His behaviour has completely gone off the rails and he smokes weed, stays out Tim all hours and disturb us all when he gets home usually drunk and high and just isn't a nice person to be around

Eldest has broke his collarbone which means He can't play football for a bit and ds2 keeps goading him and sort of laughing at the fact he can't play football and then when he was in the wrong and his brother hit him (ds1 does have a temper) acted like the innocent one and how everyone else is in the wrong which is his problem, he takes no accountability and acts like everyone else is ad fault

Ds1 is currently resting in their room and the arguments have been worse, their room is a tip and ds2 is picking on himas I've refused to give him any money and he has no phone currently due to him smashing it and I've told him he can wait until his birthday for it to be fixed which goes not happy about.

Their room is a tip and I'm exhausted and at my wits end with them both right now!

Sorry for any errors in typing on my phone

If anyone has any questions i’ll answer i didn’t want to make this post too long as havent wrote everything down

Get him a phone if you can afford it. Kids of his age need it like oxygen and it's not a privilege. No conditions attached.

Try to be as supportive as you can with DS2 and appreciative when he does the right thing. His life plan is a bit turbulent right now. If he does not get 4 + grades in his GCSE's, despite attending lessons, he's not that academically inclined and that's fine. Look into local college courses. There's so much more to life than university and academia.

Still doable. I used to live in a house similar to yours with no hallway, you walked in straight off the street and we turned that into a sleeping space. I used to sleep in there myself and everyone had their own room.

To be honest I’d be moving everything around so all your dc had their own space, those ds of yours clearly need it.

its not permanent and both of your 17 year olds could potentially move out in a year or two.

and you can absolutely partition a smaller bedroom, I’ve done it myself in the past to separate 2 of mine (before they had seperate rooms, I had 6 at one point in a3 bed)Edited to add you don’t have to spend lots of money on partitioning.. I bought a movable partition from fb market place and secured it with chest of drawers either side…or a heavy bookcase would do

There is a baby in the mix somewhere because OP has said that the twin complained about the crying.
I stopped having children when we had 3 because that’s all I had space, time and finances for.
There is at least the twins, a 13 year old and a baby, people are probably being fair to point out that in part some of what is happening is a direct consequence of OPs fairly recent actions, if the baby is small which it appears to be.

We have twins in our family and they're either best buddies or not.
You haven't mentioned their father, is he around?
No son of mine would tell me to fuck off.
You mention a baby so I assume you have a new partner. Although I think any DP should not parent his step children there should be some respect in your house.
My wider family have had sporting scholarships but there needs to be a plan B. Injury can take it away in a heartbeat (happened to my husband).
I think a sit down family meeting is needed and the weed needs to stop. I've seen brain damage from wacky and it ruins lives. Often they move on to coke. His dealer will love that. Get your tiger mother out and give him his phone. It's a safety thing. If you don't any dealer will buy him one then you are f*cked!

I don’t think it’s rewarding DS2 to give him his own (smallest) bedroom so much as punishing DS1, who does not deserve it, to make him stay sharing with a brother he doesn’t get on with at all and is making his life so awful.

DS2 into the box room. DS3 shares the bigger room with DS1 and it is all to be cleaned.

And DS2 only gets the gym money and will get his phone mended etc etc if he’s prepared to sit down with you and come up with some kind of plan, which he needs to stick to.

Does DS2 have any other adults that they look up to or have a positive relationship with? I think that you must have an awful lot on your plate with the range of ages in an overcrowded home and DS2 is going to need more support than you can give.

Op from experience, you will never get useful
advice on this from someone who hasn’t raised a teen in turbulent times. All the “I’d never accept that” brigade have no idea.

Cracking down isn’t going to work here, you’ve already established this. He’s probably twice as strong as you and these “consequences” everyone talk about…what? Take the phone? Not got one. Stop pocket money? Doesn’t get any. Ground him? Yeah he’s a grown man how you keeping him in? It’s all just fuel for the fire.

I found giving some subtle responsibility (locking up to keep the family safe, stopped the late night antics), backing off and giving some choices to make rather than nagging made all the difference. Taking all demands away releases the pressure and expectations and gradually reintroducing things with some reward for completing something (eg a bit of pocket money) builds the confidence back up. He’s probably feeling like a failure so acting like one to mask the shame. It’s not easy but the less you get on his case, the quicker he’ll snap out this I bet.

And I would look at the small room for him, sounds like he needs alone time to decompress. It’s better to shake all this “I don’t want to look like I’m rewarding bad behaviour”, it’s more responding to obvious distress. It’s not a battle of wills

Behaviour like DS2’s is how you end up with footballers behaving like some of the Argentinian team did when they lost.

It sounds like he needs some therapy if hes had a shift like that. I would also be concerned that he'll get into stronger drugs especially if he doesn't have any money and has that sort of attitude. He needs to find a strong male role model (not dad) who is willing to work with him and help him through this and help find his purpose before its too late. He sounds like he's either got hurt by the football or something else that you are not aware of and hes lashing out so he doesnt have to show this vulnerability. Therapy might be a fight but it's probably going to be worth it at this cross roads. You have a bit of control now due to his age but once hes 18 - its going to be very hard.

from The way you write about them it’s clear ds1 is golden child and dc2 is seen as a disappointment. He’s gone off the rails because of that and you are at least partly at fault here and you’re still carrying it on. He needs love and support and reassurance to find his own path not threats and consequences that further reinforce that !

And my own son who is 20 now went off rails a bit- messed around at school, always in low level trouble, GCSEs 4-5 not 7-9 like capable of, out at 15 drinking, vaping etc. he’s 20 now, completely different person, good job, savings, hard working, given up vaping , exercises etc. we did not achieve that through constant fighting or being told off but through space, support, discussion and knowing that if always love him regardless

Stand in both your sons shoes a bit, imagining life through their eyes.
Their sibling rivalry exists because they want to be the one doing well. Resentment about feeling less admired, less important will produce a negative young person.
They both need to feel valued in equal measure. And to value each other. Sometimes one will need more confidence than the other. They really should be the best of friends. I would not expect rivalry on this scale as normal.
Praise. When was the last time both your sons had any? And I do mean both. It doesn’t have to be for anything much. When did both feel they were getting something right? When were they last praised for being nice to each other?

That is where you start. You show them by not telling them, going on.

The title of your thread is something your son will be very aware of .

Do you really think that your DS2 is acting this way because all he wants is "his own room"???? He is in emotional and psychic pain and you seem to be oblivious to it or willing to help him deal with it. You are posting here asking for help and many PP are making good suggestions. Due to money and space constraints, you can't act on all of them. But for a start, you can do this one thing and it's not "rewarding bad behaviour" but acknowledging that your DS2 isn't dealing with rejections and defeats very well. You can either add to his list of "reasons to be angry at the world" or help him find a constructive way through it. Failing to see this isn't good parenting. It won't be easy for any of you, but I wish you all the best for all your DC.

Yes I got this vibe too.

For ds2, Are there any organisations/charities near you that offer employment support for young people/adults? For example, there is a charity near me that would work with young people/adults doing the kings trust award, apply for college or helping them find jobs, apprenticeships etc? Sounds like resitting his exams isn't something he will agree to anytime soon but needs some sort of positive focus / routine before any work on what the root cause of the issue is (rivalry with brother/feeling like he is a disappointment) through counselling, it doesn't seem like he is in a place to commit to that right now or would want to do it. It has to be the right time for him to do that.

Find your local councils education phone number and call them for NEET advice for DS2. I think the PP idea of DS1 and 3 sharing and DS2 going in the smallest room makes sense.
You need to find something he will do, at the moment hes bored, angry and poor and likely to end up doing something very stupid.

I think the bedrooms need to be sorted out as a priority. Am I right in thinking that you have 4 kids OP, and the the twins are the oldest? It’s completely wrong that the older children are the ones sharing a room.

So you tell the twin thats being horrible, not sticking to boundaries and taking part in weed smoking that its not tenable for him to continue living there and you'll contact the local authority and police and have him gone. The influence on your other dc is not fair and and is a safeguarding risk to be honest. Drugs and violence in the household. Give the twin a deadline if he doesn't improve then follow through with having him gone from the house. Its as easy as you want to make it

@neostone sorry if you’ve answered this already, but is their dad on the scene?

OP what a nightmare.

Agree with PPs that you somehow have to get these two out of each others' hair. Even sharing with a different sibling may be a better option than having these two in the same room.

And it does sound to me a bit like you tend to favour ds1 over ds2. You say that he's been in and out of trouble for a long time, but you tell the story of their falling-out as if it was all ds2's fault. As the quiet sister of a very outgoing sibling, I suspect that ds2 has been suffering for a long time from his brother's overbearing presence. He must feel that you put up with his twin's wild ways and now he's been 'rewarded' with the football scholarship,

And yes, ds2 needs a phone. No wonder he goads his brother if he can't reach his own friends. Social lives have become completely dependent on the darn things.