I dislike who ds has become after not getting football scholarship

[neostone]

Im at my wits end. My eldests are twin boys they’re 17 next month, they were close up until secondary school and they have had some sort of rivalry since with everything from friends, girls, football etc

At 15 they had a falling out because ds2 had been messaging his brothers gf in a flirty way which is said was a joke and he didn't fancy her. Then after they broke up (not due to ds2 messages u didn't think but u didn't know 100%) ds2 then told a lie about how eldest was in a relationship with a girl in year 8, and their relationship hasn't been the same since. They share a room to make matters worse

Last year ds1 signed a scholarship with a professional football team and ever since then theres more jealousy as ds2 didn't and lost his place at his college due to behaviour and low attendance. He doesn't care, he's quite academic and was predicted grades higher than his brother like 7s/8s but he got very low grades in his real exams and couldn't do A levels either which was due to him not trying and caring more about girls and drama

His behaviour has completely gone off the rails and he smokes weed, stays out Tim all hours and disturb us all when he gets home usually drunk and high and just isn't a nice person to be around

Eldest has broke his collarbone which means He can't play football for a bit and ds2 keeps goading him and sort of laughing at the fact he can't play football and then when he was in the wrong and his brother hit him (ds1 does have a temper) acted like the innocent one and how everyone else is in the wrong which is his problem, he takes no accountability and acts like everyone else is ad fault

Ds1 is currently resting in their room and the arguments have been worse, their room is a tip and ds2 is picking on himas I've refused to give him any money and he has no phone currently due to him smashing it and I've told him he can wait until his birthday for it to be fixed which goes not happy about.

Their room is a tip and I'm exhausted and at my wits end with them both right now!

Sorry for any errors in typing on my phone

If anyone has any questions i’ll answer i didn’t want to make this post too long as havent wrote everything down

How many DC are there in the house?

This sounds very difficult @neostone

You mention he has no money… but smokes a lot of weed. Where is he getting the funds to do that?

He sounds like he’s quite bright. What has happened to make him check out?

Where is his dad in all this?

How many kids in the household?
Where is dad and what is he doing?
Where is DS getting drug money from?

I’d take him out perhaps to a pub or just in the car and say picture yourself at 40. Do you want to look in the mirror and say my brother got a scholarship at 17 so I chose to throw my life in the bin? You need to get a grip and grow up. We have a week to come up with a plan. Think hard. It’s going to be hard to have a good future without study and you’re a bright boy who can do it easily, but if you prefer sitting on your butt smoking weed you won’t. You need to think about who you want to be, I’m sure it’s not this person.

This. And why are they in the same room? They aren't five. Sounds like they are being treated as two halves of the same person constantly pitted against one another rather than two individuals allowed to develop their own tastes and choices. There is a long way between dropping out of college, not getting a football scholarship and his life being "in the bin", but he really needs help to develop individually and find the right thing for him.

Why is he allowed to go out at all hours and disturb the household? You are still a parent and are allowed to set rules and even tell him to stay home.

@DeftGoldHedgehog “why are they in the same room?”
If the op lives in a 3 bed house there aren’t that many other options! Extra rooms cannot be magically summoned.
The 13yo is in the smallest bedroom, the 17yos share. The fact “they aren’t five” is irrelevant if there are no other bedroom options.

Sounds like ds2 need his own space a bit more than anyone else does right now, so I would move ds3 into ds1s room, and let ds2 have his own room.

Most kids who fail to get a much wanted scholarship don't have to live in the same house as someone who did get in. That must be incredibly hard for him.

I would see giving him his own room as the consolation prize for that, rather than a reward for bad behaviour.

Yes i agree. Scholarship twin and younger child together in large room to share and get peace. I dont think any decent person would want to share with a drugs and drink, unemployed or no education person wuth scummy behaviour.- put horrible son in the small room on his own.
Tell him to be back by 10pm and door will be locked from then. Put a tent and sleeping bag in garden so he has somewhere to sleep if he is late. If he kicks off because hes late dont engage, call the police.

You need to find out if there are any employability programmes for 16-24 year olds in your area. There should be as far as im aware. Like a 12 week confidence and skills programme into education or a job. Sign him up and if he doesnt go then find out if theres local youth homeless accomodation and make plans for him to move there, whether you pack his stuff one day, leave it outside and give the details of where to go.

Or continue as you are, make no changes and everyone will be miserable and disrupted lifestyles because you continue the status quo.

So there is a baby at home as well or did I misread? Where is the twins dad or is there a step dad or partner in the mix?

It would be useful to know how many kids you have and whether their dad is involved in their lives. At times when I’ve found communication is not working between DS18 and me, DH takes him for a drive or to the pub and can get him to open up.

My best friend has twin girls who are grown up now and I think she’s done a fantastic job with them. Similar to you she had one who was the higher achiever but there was never any major jealousy. Their parents worked really hard on encouraging them to be their own person. They also were careful not to be boastful about the accomplishments of one DD. They definitely celebrated her achievements but didn’t go overboard.

All of that has proven helpful because as the girls have grown up, the one who ‘won’ at everything has had some setbacks. She missed out on the job she wanted after Uni and has had to make some career compromises while her sibling was recruited by her first choice and is excelling. And the less successful twin has a lovely bf and looks set to be engaged soon while her sister hasn’t had any luck with men.

Your DS1 has chosen a very difficult path in life. Very few young footballers make it professionally. And if he’s never had a major setback it could hit him hard. Meanwhile your DS2 once he sorts himself out will have learned resilience which will stand him in good stead in the future. The message he needs to hear now is to start leading his own life rather than just trying to copy his brother. You have to have patience with him and keep telling him that you are not going to give up on him. And meanwhile make sure your other DS stays humble and has a plan B.

You don’t want to resolve this OP. It sounds incredibly difficult but you are putting up barriers whenever anyone makes a suggestion that will help.

this child needs support and guidance. His self esteem has crashed and everything he thought was going to happen has gone wrong.

move 13 year old in with DS1. A 13 year old and 16 year old can share.. DS2 can have the box room. He needs live support and guidance. You need to find a new college/school which will take him for resits in September and you need to get him back on track.

it won’t be easy but it’s your role as a parent to try. Don’t abandon him. Stop putting up obstacles because the route is hard. It will be hard but that’s parenting. He’s hurting and you need to help him.

Do you have a job OP? Sounds really difficult anyway but if you have a job too awful. You need outside support.

Are there any colleges in your area that do a sports based course for your son.? It sounds like he needs something to focus on or one possibility is to consider training to be a physiotherapist so he could help people like footballers.

Also I wonder do you have a basement or a loft or garage that could be changed to another bedroom. Do you have room in the garden for a caravan.?

At 17 and not in education,I think that it is reasonable to instigate a rule where he works 30hours a week if he wants to live in your house. That can be one rule for both kids, and that will apply to the younger ones when they approach adulthood.

The work he can do is:

Get a job
Get some sort of education/college placement/apprenticeship
Do housework
Look after younger siblings
DIY/gardening etc to make the house nicer

If he does his 30 hours willingly with no fuss he’ll also get gym/phone/pocket money paid (if not earning).

Commend DS1 on getting his scholarship. Hope that goes well.

I would put DS2 in the smallest room. I would also demand no drinking nor drugs. And that he had to find a job, a training apprenticeship or go back to school.

DS1 is trustworthy enough to share a room with DS3 so that is where I would put him.

If you suspect DS2 has weed in the house, call the cops.

You really have to mean business.
Your second son is wallowing in self pity.
He should be cheering his brother on at his sport and training harder to try to make the team.
Your first son will be fine.

The situation can't go on. You can't leave ds1 and ds2 sharing a room all summer if ds1 is incapacitated. What an awful situation to be forced to share a room with someone who acts like they hate you.

I'd move ds3 in with ds1 and put ds2 in his own room.

Ds2 sounds very unhappy and sound like he has been for a while. I'd look into some substance use support and counselling for him.

Scrap A levels, he needs something else to focus on that he isn't currently failing at . Different college and course type for a fresh start in September? Or a job for a year whilst he decides next steps?

Stick to your boundaries about not giving money and a new phone unless he earns it by doing jobs for you.

Is there a way you can take him out, just you and and him, away from the house and his siblings and let him know he does have options but he needs to nake changes and stop fighting against everyone and everything.

If DS 2 can't leave DS 1 alone then he has to be out of that room.

I know you said there isn't room but a single mattress in the living room or even the kitchen would be an option.

Yes it would be an absolute pain, but he can work on his attitude to allow him to move back in with his brother.

At 17 he can get a full time job as long as there is some training attached, so learning to make fries in McDonalds counts.

There is usually a housing option with something like the YMCA although that can be with a 'host' family.

DS2 probably wants to hit DS1 for being the better version of himself - as a footballer, and as an academic, sounds like you prefer DS1 too.

Poor kid no wonder he’s in self destruct mode! Can you spend time finding something DS2 is good at? Boost his confidence.

There is also a baby given OPs updates, I think there is probably a lot more going on then just the scholarship. I can imagine if my eldest got to 15/16, still sharing a room with his brother with more children being added to the situation he would be deeply unhappy too.
Op hasn’t said where the twins Dad is, money is obviously fairly tight as couldn’t have afforded a partition even if the room was big enough for one.
Op says nothing can be done and has seemingly given up, which is understandable as it sounds like she came here to vent, not get advised on things that may help.
Op I don’t know if your son would consider joining the forces, it might be worth sitting down and discussing that as an option, there is a variety of apprenticeships on offer and may help getting him out of the situation he currently finds himself in.
To the people that are suggesting kicking him out, he is a child who is already struggling. He will not be able to access much help if he doesn’t have a parent advocating for him, it would ruin his life.

Kindly OP, he sounds like a very unhappy child. And he is still very much a child at 17.

Home sounds like it’s been tricky for whatever reason and you sound like you are now blaming troubled twin and washing your hands of the issue. This is your issue as much as his, not least because he is clearly very unhappy. I couldn’t stand by and watch my unhappy child make an absolute mess of his life without trying my very best to help and intervene.

you need to give troubled twin some space, and his own room for a while as a pp said. You need to talk to him and start trying to understand rather than blame. Children are not born ‘bad’ (very rare MH or personality disorders aside), they are grown. You need to own your part in this outcome - two troubled teens - and try to help them both rather than blame.

other notes - ds1 still has a violent temper. That needs addressing too. You are being an apologist for violence and that will be noted by the whole family including your more troubled twin.

Ouch! I don't think that's fair comment. The decision on how many DCs to have was taken many years before this situation developed. OP has likely stressed about this and tried many things along the way. Parenting can only go so far. There are other factors out of our control, like who gets offered a scholarship and who doesn't, who your kid falls in with and what their choices are.

So the best advice on this thread is trying to spend quality time with each child separately (and the other DCs too), see if another family member or friend can take DS2 under their wing and give guidance, have a reset in any way possible even if organising separate bedrooms is not an option (though that would obviously help). Using praise as often as you can, for the subtext that you believe in them and you are ultimately on their side. DS2 is clearly hurting - it would be good to help him understand how and why and get some proper control back in his life so he can move forward. So counselling/therapy seems like a good idea, although the subject has to want to engage. If he has free time atm, can he be enlisted to go and 'help out' the grandparents or something? Or his own separate thing that will give him some breathing space, a fresh aspect and maybe a sense of purpose, where he will be appreciated for his contribution?

I also have identical twin boys (in a group of triplets) around the same age and I recognise many of the same rivalries. Twice we have had to take one to A&E after it got too physical, although they bond well over things like computer games. It seems like a constant battle to try and manage their relationship, which of course is an impossible task - it's their relationship to manage. Their sibling relationships shape them as people, but shouldn't break them. It's really hard as the parent to know what you can do and what you can't. We keep trying.

So I feel your pain. Keep trying things. Keep going. It's the only thing you can do...

Your son needs a whole heap of love OP, your attention and support.