I dislike who ds has become after not getting football scholarship

[neostone]

Im at my wits end. My eldests are twin boys they’re 17 next month, they were close up until secondary school and they have had some sort of rivalry since with everything from friends, girls, football etc

At 15 they had a falling out because ds2 had been messaging his brothers gf in a flirty way which is said was a joke and he didn't fancy her. Then after they broke up (not due to ds2 messages u didn't think but u didn't know 100%) ds2 then told a lie about how eldest was in a relationship with a girl in year 8, and their relationship hasn't been the same since. They share a room to make matters worse

Last year ds1 signed a scholarship with a professional football team and ever since then theres more jealousy as ds2 didn't and lost his place at his college due to behaviour and low attendance. He doesn't care, he's quite academic and was predicted grades higher than his brother like 7s/8s but he got very low grades in his real exams and couldn't do A levels either which was due to him not trying and caring more about girls and drama

His behaviour has completely gone off the rails and he smokes weed, stays out Tim all hours and disturb us all when he gets home usually drunk and high and just isn't a nice person to be around

Eldest has broke his collarbone which means He can't play football for a bit and ds2 keeps goading him and sort of laughing at the fact he can't play football and then when he was in the wrong and his brother hit him (ds1 does have a temper) acted like the innocent one and how everyone else is in the wrong which is his problem, he takes no accountability and acts like everyone else is ad fault

Ds1 is currently resting in their room and the arguments have been worse, their room is a tip and ds2 is picking on himas I've refused to give him any money and he has no phone currently due to him smashing it and I've told him he can wait until his birthday for it to be fixed which goes not happy about.

Their room is a tip and I'm exhausted and at my wits end with them both right now!

Sorry for any errors in typing on my phone

If anyone has any questions i’ll answer i didn’t want to make this post too long as havent wrote everything down

I’d tell DS2 that he either stops being useless and irresponsible and argumentative or he has to find other accommodation. I’d give him a deadline to sort his shit out (eg two months).

That's all very well but 17 year olds can't find alternative accomodation.

OP is there any way they could have separate spaces? It's hellish for them to have to share a room when they don't get on.

is there any way that you can possibly separate them? Use a dining room as a bedroom?

Why haven't you told DS to stop being a cock and to sort his shit out?

You seem to be letting them just get on with it and see what happens without having actually intervened in a helpful way.

DS1 hitting his brother seems fair in this situation.

Most people don't have dining rooms and if they did, I'm sure OP would have thought of that a long time ago! More realistic she could sleep in the living room for a year or two until one or both moves out.

Just for clarity is their father on the scene or are you lone parenting?

Sounds like you’ve let DS1 get away with hitting his brother there. Also sounds like DS2 was troubled long before the scholarship. What started off the rivalry? Has DS1 always been the golden child? Is there anyway you can stop them sharing rooms as that’s obviously not helping either of them

I agree. There is obviously a history here.

Honestly, with that level of ill feeling I'd be looking at family therapy. If there is any feasible way of giving them their own rooms, I'd make that a priority (if they were my children, I'd sleep on a pull out bed downstairs rather than have them share after everything that's gone wrong in their relationship).

DS2 sounds like he’s got some significant issues that need addressing. Please don't excuse his brother hitting him though, nothing but self defence excuses violence.

No ds1 didn't just get away with hitting his brother but I think id want to hit someone too if I was in pain with my arm and collarbone and someone was goading me and laughing that I couldn't do something I loved doing.

Ds2 wasn't troubled before the scholarship. He was quiet and academic whereas ds1 wasn't as academic and was louder and in and out of trouble throughout school and had a temper which has since calmed down so no ds1 isn't the golden child but he's sorted his issues out whereas ds2 could've got high gcse results last summer but he didn't care to revise and was more interested in girls. Just FYI I don't care about results as long as the dc try their best but he didn't try his best and has got kicked out of college now too

And this is why I am so against children sharing rooms if it can be avoided. I remember my teen years sharing with my sister, it is awful when you just want five minutes of peace but the other 'sharer' is always around especially if you don't get on.
In OPs situation I would be moving heaven and earth to give the boys their own space , either by dividing the room they have or moving myself into their room and dividing the master (don't necessarily worry about them both having a window, at that age they care more about privacy than natural light!).
Obviously, regardless of the bedroom situation you also need to come down like a tonne of bricks on the 'naughty' twin, personally I find money is a great motivation, ie stop giving him any until his attitude improves.

I'd take a couple of steps here:

1. As much as possible, step away from refereeing arguments. If there is a sibling rivalry, it's often about attention from a parent (not all the time, but most of the time). Don't let them get extra attention by refereeing the fights. Let them know that you trust them to figure out arguments by themselves.
2. Make sure you spend individual time with both sons. Positive time, doing something they enjoy, without broaching anything about their relationship with their brother. Make sure that you praise aspects of their individual personalities - whatever personality trait they have that is different to their brother.
3. Try and give them individual space. Ideally separate bedrooms but if that's not possible try and divide their bedroom in two with a heavy curtain or tall bookshelves. Try and make sure that there isn't much chance for eye contact - put their desks on opposite sides of the room. Buy them both noise cancelling headphones and give each brother a dedicated time during the week or weekend where the room is totally theirs for a couple of hours.
4. Once all this is done, sit them down and say that you don't expect them to be best friends or even friends. You hope that they'll bond again at some point in the future but you understand at this time it's not possible. But what is an absolute red line for you is that everyone is the house is respectful to each other. You will not be refereeing fights, but if there are instances of disrespect right in front of you there will be consequences.

Very best of luck

You had a whole paragraph of DS2s issues with his brother before the scholarship from age 15 though so that doesn’t fit with your OP.

And DS1 just hit his brother out of anger, so his temper isn’t resolved. What have you done to help DS2 work through his issues? What has caused them?

It sounds like somewhere along the way ds2 has become quite jealous of ds1 but also that he has lost his own way.

They are two separate issues but you need to help ds2 work out what he wants to do with his life. Is he working now that he's been kicked out of college? He needs purpose and achievement which will help him grow up and leave his brother alone. What is his current plan? Are you funding him just loafing about?

Maybe needs to go and do something vocational, or go travelling so he grows up, maybe even one of those volunteering overseas schemes, or maybe the armed forces. Something so his life moves forward.

first of all, that is a really awful lie of your ds2 to spread. Gross really. Has it had any long term impact on your ds1 socially?

Boys who don't do as well as they hoped they would in football can really go off the rails. A lot of them seem to become addicts etc or never scrape a proper career together because they had everything riding on being professional footballers.

The good news is that you have enough time to step in.

You need to find some way to separate the boys. Move if you need to. Have one of them go live with a relative (I'm serious).

But don't underestimate the impact of your ds2's hopes and dreams being smashed like they have.

So, you punished the good kid for hitting the problem kid who bullies him. Ever thought to parent the problem child? Not sure how it’s got to this stage as you should she stepped in years ago to sort out the one who has now been kicked out of school.

You’re right. Most don’t have dining rooms but I have seen many a thread on here with sleeping/ bedroom issues and it turns out that there is an extra room. One being used as a playroom, DP’s office/man cave/den. Whilst 2 or 3 dc are being squashed into a bedroom.

In the OP’s situation, I would buy a decent sofa bed and move into the living room myself and give both a boys a bedroom each. But make it very clear that the expectation is that by having their own rooms, the house will be calmer for everyone.

Do they have to share a room? Is there anyway a dividing wall can be put up, dining room converted etc so they have their own space?
I have boys that are 16 months apart and started being competitive around 8/9 and I could see what was ahead if we didn’t nip it in the bud because the younger one just found life easy compared to his brother. We separated them out, different hobbies, different friends and they ultimately decided on different secondary schools.
Its easy to say but try not to fall into the trap of ‘good twin’ ‘bad twin’
If they both went for the scholarship and only one got it, that’s got to have an affect. Sending his brother’s gf flirty messages and starting off rumours about a younger girlfriend is unpleasant.
They need space away from each other and I would suggest some form of therapy for the one who feels like his dreams have been shattered and has to watch his brother fulfil the exact same ones.

Could the one who got not good exam results study for retakes?

The rivalry began in year 7 I think or year 8, it was around friends and who was better at football (even though they were different positions), who was better at school (ds2 was a higher ‘set’ than ds1) and then later girls which began when ds1 got a gf. But I was told that the rivalry was normal especially with Identical twins. But things have especially changed in the past year since ds1 got the scholarship and ds2 is now not the quiet one but the one who causes trouble and is loud and smokes weed, stays out til all hours. He doesn't do anything like work and he couldn't work ft anyway as he's only 16. I've said I'm not giving him any money or paying for a phone repair and that's why he's been acting up more than usual as he'd probably be out now doing God knows what but he has no phone or money

It’s not an excuse but it sounds like ds2’s self esteem has completely collapsed because he can’t help comparing himself to his brother. Are there other adults in his life he could talk to about this? It can be very hard to talk about this with parents, they’re too close to the situation.

What are you doing to help DS2? And what about the bedroom situation?

They have to share a room. I have other dc too and there simply isn't anywhere they can go. We don't have a hallway so living room isn't an option, and their room is already small (though not the smallest in the house) so partitioning isn't really do able and I don't have the spare money for that

So, why is he out? What actual parenting have you done with him? It sounds like you just sat back and watched him go off the rails without intervention.
How many kids do you have? Too many to actually devote the necessary time to this one?

You still only answered one question OP