To be sick of politicians using 'fairness' as justification for tax rises?

[Itchthescratch]

Fairness is completely subjective and I notice that this is often shorthand for giving more money to those that contribute the least.

Of course there will always be those that can't contribute much due to factors outside of their control, but we are kidding ourselves if we pretend that there aren't already lots of people that are scraping by doing the bare minimum (sometimes even less) and making completely irresponsible decisions knowing the state will ultimately insulate them from the consequences.

I personally know people that have had lots of children that they can't afford and can't parent properly simply because they wanted to. They are now on an incredible amount of money as the two child cap has been lifted. I know people that have stopped working because they weren't much better off than being on benefits and they couldn't be bothered with the hassle. I know young people that are already planning to stay on disability benefits their whole lives for mental health issues as they want to stay home and game.

Is it really 'fair' to charge the rest of us more to subsidise all of this?

Don’t even get me started on foreign aid, where that goes, waste in public sector, public sector pension unaffordability, temoval
of 2 child benefit cap, and asylum costs. Typical Labour always tax and waste
always politician of pure envy with none of them actudlly having owned a business or any economic literacy whatsoever !

Yes, why isn't the concept of fairness applied to public spending and why does nobody ever ask if this is a 'fair' use of other people's money?

Cheer up - we’re all going to save about £45 per year as VAT on gas and electric is being abolished.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwxll8jyz8o

Don't spend it all at once 🙄

If only his fairness extended to businesses, then we might start to see more growth.

I suppose it depends what sort of a society we want to live in.

As my mum would say, it’s better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick!

I agree. That's why fairness is subjective.

I want to live in a productive and kind society where the generally vulnerable are cared for but most of us are incentivised to make sacrifices to contribute what we can. As a minimum we should all look to cover our own costs and some of us should look to contribute more for those that can't contribute enough themselves. If there was a genuine believe this was happening then the social contract would be incredibly strong. Sadly there are many that believe that they are entitled to be supported by everyone else and don't need to contribute very much at all.

You can never please everyone. I also don’t think you can even imagine how hard some people’s lives are or have been. I don’t mind paying more tax if goes towards helping people in poverty or people living on the streets because our society will improve as a whole. You have to look at the bigger picture.

Someone is paying for this though. Are you sure it's not you?

It’s being paid for from the budget for digital ID, the policy is estimated to cost £850m and the budget for the ID was £1.2 billion

Absolutely.
Career politicians seem to have no idea that small to medium size businesses could be the power houses of the nation. Instead we are crippled by legislation and tax.

Darren Jones has just tweeted that digital ID was unfunded so the money for the VAT cut can't come from there.

Self employed and businesses pay lower tax than salaried employees. There are loads of tax incentives and advantages for businesses. Assets and wealth are taxed at a far lower rate than income, if at all.

If a small business feels crippled it’s likely that your business simply isn’t profitable and perhaps you should get a job.

Dare I say I’ll trust the prime minister over a man who is obviously bitter than he’s just been sacked?

No you’re not.

It’s only until the next budget, and funded by scrapping ID cards. (That is to say, they haven’t ruled out that it will be extended, just that that will need the funding to be looked at again at the next budget).

YANBU in your main point that “fairness” is subjective and therefore isn’t an argument on its own. When people say “because it’s fair”, they need to be pressed on why. Otherwise it’s just a lazy “if you don’t agree with me, you’re not being fair!”

Sacked or not, I would be astounded Jones would lie about something that could be fact checked so easily

Spoken like somebody who's never run a business.

Oh dear.

He’s right that it wasn’t specifically funded.

Gov departments had been told to find savings to fund it. I assume those savings will now be reallocated.

I would like to live in a society where people take personal responsibility for their choices .

Even if that's true, the money for ID cards was still taxpayer money. It could be used to reduce any future budget deficit and either pay off public debt or lower the need for tax rises. Ultimately those who contribute will once again be disproportionately funding this hand out.

I don’t believe that young adults who can’t get decent jobs are the problem, but overall YANBU.

Many parts of the benefit system feel
unfair which leads to the tax system feeling even more unfair.

Completely agree. It's the same with benefits for older people. It amazes m e how those pensioners who have barely worked end up claiming pension credit and getting all rent and council tax paid for plus all the ther freebies that come with it yet those that have worked all their lives and receive a small private pension are often ruled out of pension credit. It is one of those most unfair ways that the benefit system works. I'm not lumping those too disabled to have worked or carers in this category. Again and again the benefit system rewards those that have not paid in.

I agree that it definitely isn't all young people's fault but the individual I know isn't even trying. Some are trying incredibly hard and getting nowhere. That is a different issue and one we should look to tackle.