To persevere with this relationship?

[BeMoreSoThen]

I have posted about this before under a different name but it is my birthday next month and I suppose it is making me reflect on what I want in life.

In my early 20s I had a very good male friend with whom I had no romantic relationship at all. By my mid 20s, that had changed and after night outs we would often end up going home together, but it was all very casual and we were both single. We both would see other people too.

In our late 20s we had a pregnancy scared and got much closer. He then text me one day to say he was going on a date with someone else and I ended it. I knew I liked him, and he knew it too, and I was not interested in sharing him with anyone. We didn’t speak for a while after this.

During this time, I met someone who I thought I would end up marrying. I thought he was perfect. And then he cheated on me and finished it to be with his affair partner. Upset and drunk, I got in touch again with the first man.

We gradually started seeing each other again but it was never serious. I again met someone else, and told him about it. I gave him every opportunity to say he’d prefer we were together and I didn’t see this other man, but he was clearly not bothered so I ended things and gave it a whirl with the other man.

That lasted just a few months and I felt suffocated and unhappy. I hated how often he wanted to see me and stay at mine, and the expectations placed on me, and ended it. I went back to the first man again.

This was five years ago. We agreed a long time ago that we are monogamous. We speak all day every day, and holiday together a couple of times a year. But we only see each other every couple of weeks, despite living five minutes away from each other.

I sometimes wonder if I’m ‘settling’, and whether I want a proper relationship with the aim to be living together and marriage. But then I think about the previous relationship where I felt suffocated because he wanted exactly that and I hated it. I hated him wanting to stay over on week nights or wanting to go for dinner or to see his family.

I’m not getting any younger and I wonder whether I should be brave, call it off and look for someone with a more traditional view of a relationship. Or it it okay to stick with what I’ve got despite being relentlessly told by friends that it’s not a ‘real’ relationship.

For what it's worth, OP, this is close to my concept of an ideal relationship.

I would (ideally) want a bit more doing things together, but in no way living together or - erm, space invading. I've been married twice and I suspect that a big part of the reason I picked unsuitable husbands was because I felt I 'should' be conventionally coupled.

On other threads in Relationships, people often talk about avoidant attachment and say avoidant people should be in relationships with each other! There are a lot of different avoidant styles; they wouldn't all be compatible with one another. But if two people with a similar attachment style liked and fancied each other, they could forge a relationship that worked perfectly for them.

A few people have said every few weeks but it is usually at least every two weeks.

We go to quizzes or play darts or watch TV or whatever. It depends what we fancy doing. Then we have a lazy morning the next day.

We text multiple times a day to keep in touch, and so we are aware of everything happening in each other’s lives, from the serious to inconsequential.

This is meant with kindness but I think you’ve got stronger feelings for this guy than he has for you. I don’t think you want to admit to those feelings because it makes you feel too vulnerable in your current situation with him and that’s why you feel so conflicted. If you felt he was totally into you and not second guessing it (unsurprising based on your previous experience with him) I think you’d be all in with him

I am very happy to admit (admit seems a strange word, they are not wrong) my feelings for him. I tell him I love him all of the time, and he tells (and makes me feel) the same. I have no qualms at all about telling him and anyone else how strong my feelings are.

I’m not sure that seeing each other every two weeks counts as enthusiastic, tbh. Or him not socialising with your friends as he has his own, or saying how living together would be ok as you could carry on doing your own things separately.
It feels like you have (both) compartmentalised the relationship, which sounds all neat and tidy but only you know whether it’s enough.
Sharing and entwining your lives might not be for you, and that’s ok.
I suspect your friends are just commenting as they are confused, as they know you are, and just want you to be your happiest.

Sounds like he's using yu. I'd be shopping arund while FWB this guy.

Good grief, this is all so wishy washy and low effort from the pair of you. You don't sound like you have a clue what you want, it's frustrating to read so I can't imagine what it's like to actually be living it.
If you were genuinely happy with the way things are you wouldn't be questioning it so much.

I find all the "you're a placeholder", "he's using you" comments on this thread to be weird and a bit misogynistic. Because he's as much of a placeholder to the OP as she is to him. They both seem very happy, in the moment, with this monogamous-but-casual status quo. OP has a great deal of self-awareness when it comes to how suffocated she feels in traditional relationships. And as she doesn't want kids it's not as if she has a timeframe to make up her mind in.

To me, the relationship is real if it's what works for you. But I get that the worry is that there's no model for future-proofing this kind of relationship - it's so casual that if either of you were swept off your feet by someone else, you'd leave the other alone in a heartbeat. It's important to note that this risk might feel greater than a traditional relationship would, but look at all the marriages that fail - doing things the conventional way does not protect you from being dumped at all.

However, I think a proper conversation about the future is long overdue. Where do you see yourselves in 10 years? (Not just in the relationship, but what are your life ambitions when it comes to careers, locations etc.)

Are you really happy with the status quo indefinitely, or do you want any sort of next stage? (I'm unclear, and maybe the OP is too, about whether she wants to live with this guy because she thinks she should - despite hating living with other men - or whether she genuinely would prefer it.)

I would also note that this sort of casual but committed relationship, where you're definitely more than FWBs but both prize your own space, is quite common among older divorced people, and from what I see it works out pretty well for them. You've just skipped the marriage and divorce bit!

I was in a similarish situation, I was so in love with this particular man and he always said he never wanted marriage or kids. I accepted it would always be what it was, we did “couple” things on the weekend, evening date nights, trips away, told each other I love you many times etc but I never met his family or moved in. Then 5 years in, one day in casual conversation he suddenly said something along the lines of “If I ever did get married…” I was stunned and in that moment I realised that if something better ever came along he might be gone because after all this time he wasn’t saying if we ever got married. I was completely devastated but finally ended it. I later met someone else and never spent a single second wondering where I stood. Sorry for rambling - if you are genuinely happy and this is what you truly want then go for it, but if there are any doubts/questions at all then you have to put yourself first now, it will only be even harder as time goes on.

Op I was really struck by you saying you don't see the point in meeting up mid week even though you live so close. I honestly can't figure out if your feelings for him aren't really there or if you're just a wee bit of a recluse (or ND perhaps)?

Sorry if that's annoying to hear

Your friends are wrong to pass comment on this arrangement unless you ask for it

I think a clean break from this guy would do you good as he's always been there in the background, it would help you work out your feelings. Or maybe try therapy to explore your feelings? Or just keep going as you are if you're happy and fuck what your friends think.

If you were happy with this situation, you wouldn't be asking here (or maybe started another thread similar as another poster as hinted at).

Do you think he's asking for advice about this? I don't. He doesn't give a toss.

You are convenient for him, he sounds like he's one of life's coasters.
I guess he isn't driven at all.
Mediocre job? Even long-term unemployed perhaps.

Men will hang around with women for years they aren't that into as long as they like them enough.
This does not mean they feel that much for them.

I'll say this:

A man who is not willing to put the relatively low level commitment of calling you his girlfriend is simply not that into you as he does not want to signal in any way to the outside world i. e. OTHER women that he is 'spoken' for.

The monogamy means nothing on his end. It's easy to be monogamous as a man when options are limited.

This could go several ways:

He meets someone else. Possible but if he doesn't go far, unlikely.
He's getting older too and unlikely to be the sort of man who gets more attractive with age.

You meet someone else. Unlikely as you're completely besotted by him. Though being a woman you still have more options than an ageing mediocre man.
But as you're besotted by him this is unlikely- please don't deny it If you weren't bothered you wouldn't be posting here.

A major crisis occurs, he becomes homeless and there you go-cocklodger territory.
Well done you got your prize.

Men are simple creatures. When they’re really into a woman, they can’t stay away from you and they make it completely clear you are the one for them. There’ll be lots of contact, no worrying whether they are or aren’t into you, no dithering on whether they want exclusivity or not. He wouldn’t be able to stand the thought of you with another man.

This guy, I’m afraid to say, ain’t that into you. He enjoys your company for sure hence you still being around after so long and he clearly likes the easy route to sex, this way he doesn’t have to put effort and money into dates first… But no, it’s unlikely he’s going to marry you and give you children. If this is what you’re after, find someone else.

It's never been an issue till now.

It was never an issue for me to leap out of bed when I was 20, it is now.
It was never an issue for me to lose weight easily when I needed to in the past, it is now.

See what I'm getting at?
Wake up for goodness sake.

And they certainly have zero problems with calling you their girlfriend.

It really is quite sad that women don't value themselves enough to realise that if a man won't even put the relatively low level commitment label of 'girlfriend' on them they really aren't into them at all.

Few = two in my head 😅 But yes, that does seem rather infrequent, both for generally seeing each other and spending time together, and in regards to sex.

I can see why your friends might see it as a FWB situation - it's a mostly digital, low effort relationship, with fortnightly meet-ups to hang out and have sex. The fact that most of your communication is just through messaging does make a difference to face to face meetings; there's a disconnection there, and fewer expectations or demands made on each other. It makes it seem much less emotionally committed, at least from an external POV - but if that's what works for you both, then there's no reason to change it.

It sounds as though your friends who keep mentioning it need to be firmly told to stop being so weirdly negative and questioning of your relationship.

(Unless it's possible that they know he's cheating, and that's why they're trying to drop hints that he's not a one woman man...but that seems very unlikely.)

This would be my ideal relationship. You are lucky.

If this man wanted to see you more would you? It feels like you’re doing everything at his pace to suit his wants and needs. If you both loved each other then why hasn’t it got more serious?

I think both you and he might need to explore your commitment issues with a therapist. And then why not have a trial period of living together?

I think for a lot of people it is a dream relationship.
I could see that it possibly be my dream relationship if me and my dh divorced. In fact for a lot of people who are past 50 this would be ideal.
(no idea of your age, obviously.)

No hassle, no expectations, no petty arguments or picking up dirty underwear, no irritations, just a companion to have sex with.

And that's fine as long as the interest level is the same by BOTH parties which it clearly is not as she is besotted by him.

I mean you wouldn't be starting threads on mumsnet about it, would you?

I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with this relationship.In fact it sounds like bliss to me. There is no guarantee that even if you married or lived together neither of you would meet someone else. You don't want children, so there is no necessity to parent,which is easier to do under one roof. Other peoples opinions are exactly that... their opinions. I think it is human nature especially in relationships to have the wedding and the 'happy ever after ' and everything neatly tied up and maybe this is what your friends feel. One size doesn't fit all. Even some Victorians😊 had ' unconventional relationships ! I think your issue is seeing an issue when there actually isn't one. If you really wanted to try living together at least you are in a good position, as you both have homes to go back to if it doesn't work out.

Is this just boilerplate "all men are like THIS and all women are like THAT" advice? Because the OP has said multiple times that she doesn't want children. And talking about men as if they're some sort of alien species (but all behave exactly the same way! every one of them is the same!) is so absurd.

As they say in Yorkshire "When in doubt, do nowt !"

It seems to me not only do you not want either of these guys, you don't know what you want long term. There's nothing wrong with that.

Getting older is not a criteria for making a possibly life-changing decision.

Stop listening to your friends and listen to your intuition.

When the right guy comes along you will know. 🙂

It just all feels a bit bloodless

Oh yes for some people this would be blissful provided their interest level in each other was the same.

It is not, though: she's besotted, he is indifferent.

What Im feeling from this is you think the continual on-offness of the relationship makes you think its a SIGN he is the One. Whereas he seems to treat you as a useful back-up when he's not with someone he really likes.
He's giving you crumbs, and it's a bit sad.
And if ALL of your friends are against him, it might be worth considering if there is any merit to their objections. He just sounds like an ageing fuckboi