Autism vs trans - clashing views

[sunshine244]

I'm in a tricky position with my AuDHD 12 year old. There is a trans boy in their class who recently started using a new name and pronouns he/him.

My son is very black and white thinking and very scientific. He is a bit grumpy at having to learn a new name as he struggles when e.g. teachers or family/friends get married and change name. But he has accepted that pretty quickly. But he flat out refuses to use the new pronouns as he says a girl can't just decide to be a boy unless they have surgery (which at this age of course isn't going to happen).

I sympathise with his as personally I don't think social transitioning this young is sensible. But I am also aware that the child's parents are very pushy about the situation and have already posted in the parents group about children bullying by not using the right pronouns/name. They got a lot of support from other parents.

I suppose my aibu is should i be forcing my son to use the child's preferred pronouns?

Yabu - I need to push my son to use preferred he/him pronouns

Yanbu - let child decide which pronouns to use or try to avoid pronouns

Accepting and respecting someone else’s reality is not the same as agreeing with the ideology behind it and this is what the OP’s son needs to understand.

Theory of mind is difficult enough for autistic children, without an entire alternative reality coming into it.

One of mine found it very difficult to navigate school at all because he couldn't get his head round the 'unfairness' that teachers were not to be contradicted or interrupted, while they were entitled to contradict and interrupt him. (I don't miss his school days, but his teachers all became strangely fond of him before he left.)

In society we as individuals accommodate beliefs and situations we might personally think are harmful all the time, and society hasn't collapsed yet.

I believe many religions are harmful for various reasons. I'll still wish my colleagues a happy Christmas / Easter / Ramadan.

I believe being very overweight is actively harmful and that as a society we're far too fat, but if someone obese asks me if they look nice I'm still going to smile and give them a compliment rather than launch into a rant about their health.

I believe trans ideology is also, in most cases, harmful to an individual, but I'm still going to be polite and use their chosen name, and do my best to avoid pronouns.

There are those who believe homosexuality is a sin / unnatural and that gay marriage shouldn't be allowed. They're allowed to hold that belief but they're not allowed to start taking it out on individual gay people.

There are those who - for whatever insane reasons - believe interracial marriage is wrong. Again, they're allowed to have that belief but they're not allowed to start going after individuals.

I don't believe we get to be arseholes to people we don't agree with, basically. Everyone has the right to live their lives - within the law - the way they see fit and if they want to worship a god that says women have to cover their faces or they decide they want to be the opposite sex then they're allowed to crack on and it's none of my business. None of that gives me carte blanche to be a complete twat towards them even if I think they're absolutely mad.

Accommodating other things we don't agree with is how society operates without eating itself and descending into tribal warfare.

Of course it’s English. I understood (and agreed with) it perfectly well, in fact I think transology is an excellent shorterned version of trans ideology.

I respect all the children I teach as individuals and treat them with care and compassion. That’s my job.

It’s also my job as a human being to give respect and tolerance to my fellow travellers on this earth.

I will always be accommodating to people who are different to me. I don’t walk in their shoes and I don’t know their experiences. It’s not for me to judge anyone else.

I think we need to be careful in schools about what we teach because of the growing understanding of the links between neurodiversity and gender questioning. I think a lot of the resources schools are provided with are too simplistic and can provide children with confusing and unhelpful messaging. This is why I refuse to teach this content. Not because I don’t think trans people exist or deserve respect.

I don’t accept that trans women should be allowed access to female only spaces - but other than that, I don’t have a problem with trans people existing and living in the world. I think people who do are dressing up hate and bigotry as feminism and I don’t agree with that one iota.

You know, if you shove your head far enough up your arse you might find a better personality than the shitty one you currently have.

HTH

Of course tolerance is important. But in all your examples above you cant entirely ignore them if you wish.

If someone is religious and wearing a face covering you don't need to refer to it ever. Or wear one.

If someone is illegally hunting you don't need to join in or eat the meat.

Etc

But a child changing gender and using new pronouns changes the required behaviour of everyone around them. Hopefully things will die down soon but currently its all peolle are talking about. Its not been done quietly and subtly. It's been made the BIG topic of the year. By the parents not the child I might add.

I think this would depend on the school’s policy on gender ideology and their behaviour policy. For example a lot of schools teach tolerance and respect. And again, in most, it’s permitted for children to choose pronouns, and expected for others to try to respect this (a few slip ups allowed of course). If this is the school’s policy and the OP’s son is being seen to go against it repeatedly and deliberately then he’d most likely be dealt with under their normal behaviour rules. That’s why I’ve suggested the OP should check in with the school.

Nothing to do with my ideology, just trying not to have a 12 yr old walk unknowingly in to a complete bin fire.

It’s the same with most workplaces- you can’t be forced to declare pronouns, or ideologically accept that TWAW, but if you are seen to be discriminating against trans people (so refusing to speak to them, work with them, or deliberately mis-gendering them) you may well face action by your employer. That’s just how the (equalities/ employment) law works, whether you like it or not.

It’s fine to disagree but calling it “cruel” and “abuse”’ is totally disproportionate. They are serious allegations that should be used a bit more carefully. This really is a matter of opinon where people usually have very strong views.

I have a problem with men dressing in fetish in public, especially in front of children.

I have a problem with public money being used to give these men voice training or to laser off their facial hair (when women with excessive hair to do not get this).

I could go on.

Trans ideology is a sick belief that has corrupted society.

This is a great post on a pretty ugly thread. My DKid is autistic and trans, and it’s a scary world for him with people like some of the PPs on this thread out there.

Do you feel the same way about women who live as men?

What do you mean by “it is possible for him to live as a girl” Do you mean insert himself into girls spaces, wear clothes that girls might choose?

It is a great post isn’t it. Take comfort that in RL there are many people like this. The intolerant keyboard warriors generally chose to hang out on threads like this so you’re more likely to see it on here than in schools or the wider community.

@Heronwatcher
I would hope all schools teach tolerance and respect, but I don't believe that this equates to enforcing preferred pronoun usage. Similarly in the workplace, I think you are wrong to imply misgendering would be considered discrimination. I don't think any case law has found this.

I completely agree. Plus on every common sense basis this kind of critical thinking means we can live our lives compassionately without constantly being seen to have to take sides, whilst society thinks its way though this and, as you say, medical and other evidence improves.

The trans people I have met are have been a musician who lives as a woman but was born male, a work colleague, and a hairdresser who cut my daughter’s hair. They are real people and were genuine, respectful, compassionate, fun and competent. I do have basic gender critical beliefs but they deserved respect and kindness, just as anyone else would.

I think half the issues here are from people who’ve never met a single trans person and just see reports of convicted criminals/ read the daily mail and haven’t had the chance to balance it out in real life.

Love this @Limeandfigs 👏

Unlike you, I suspect the OP believes the school should allow reasonable adjustments for children who need them.

You are also being very dramatic. No one is asking him to lie. He doesn't have to use any pronouns, if he doesn't want to.

Are pronouns a thing to chose through?

the meaning is to refer do to one’s sex and to force others to use them for another meaning is bullying

it’s forcing a viewpoint onto people

names are more personal and if someone wants to change their own name that has fewer consequences on others unless you hold regressive gender views that names should indicate sex , which not all names do although sexism means that neutral names may become female only

I’m afraid that’s simply not true, have a look at you gov survey results.

Most people don’t believe in trans ideology for the same reason most people don’t believe the earth is flats.

This one is a transboy (girl), so the case is different.

I would have found the idea that avoiding speaking counts as bullying - and using sexed rather than gendered pronouns also counts as bullying - very difficult to advise my child about.

I can personally do the mental gymnastics to avoid all sexed and gendered pronouns about my family and friends' transed children; he still can't, as an adult.

Well in this analogy your sitting silent is offensive and hateful, you must engage with the prayer or you are bullying and being abusive remember.

You can not believe in the trans community and still be a decent person behaving with kindness and understanding. The trans hater obsessives hide behind their keyboards, the rest of us get on with life engaging in tolerance and respect.

edited as meant to quote @Leafstamp afraid that’s simply not true, have a look at you gov survey results.
Most people don’t believe in trans ideology for the same reason most people don’t believe the earth is flat

Exactly, and the Accommodating other things we don't agree with is how society operates without eating itself and descending into tribal warfare.
only ever means other people have to accommodate me! Otherwise where is the accommodation for those who don’t want to be coerced into the preferred pronouns enforcement?

True, but completely irrelevant when it comes to whether or not you can be an arse to someone. Holding the majority view doesn't mean you get to treat the minority poorly.

I literally addressed that in the post I wrote:

I believe trans ideology is also, in most cases, harmful to an individual, but I'm still going to be polite and use their chosen name, and do my best to avoid pronouns.