To think it's time to leave the ECHR?

[Sausagenbacon]

www.thejc.com/news/uk/gazan-family-refugee-status-asylum-rejection-gwsq2c8b

You’re another poster who’s clearly anti-democratic (the people are too stupid to decide what’s best for them)….

I wish you and others like you would just be honest about it and admit you only give lip service to democracy, and actually you’d prefer a “liberal elite” (of which you’re a part) to govern us, as that would be better for us all.

You are advocates of “enlightened despotism”… At least be honest enough to admit it! I’d respect your views a lot more if you did! You may even persuade me you have a point. But pretending you, and others like you, are “democrats” is disingenuous.

This case was decided in the UK courts.

What's your point?

I ain't stupid sunshine.

I admit that I rushed into this thread and didn't read the whole thing. It was a domestic judge applying the ECHR legislation. This case didn't result and escalate to the Strasbourg court (which is the ECtHR). But the domestic judge applied the ECHR and let these people in. If the ECHR is repealed and replaced, this could be prevented

And funny how none of those Brexiteers who banged on about having “our own laws” and not having to “live by laws made by Europe” have made any noise about the fact that every single law that was in place that was an EU law, has simply been flipped to be a U.K. law.

I guarantee if we come out of ECHR, exactly the same thing will happen.

How so?

Let’s not resort to insults aye!

Oh my God. This is one of the most ill educated and also uncaring responses I have seen on Mumsnet ever

I get the frustration but you're all assuming the people writing the legislation to replace the ECHR will have your ideals.

Labour could easily pull us out and draw up a bill of rights penalising those with wealth and property.

As much as I have issues with the ECHR I'll take ten rage bait articles about it's failings over trusting any of the UK political parties with writing a piece of legislation to replace it.

I admit I rushed into it (I'm actually on holiday).

A sovereign parliament can and should have been able to repeal and replace this law and prevent others from using this to come to here in the future. Are you saying we should keep to the ECHR and have more come in this way?

I am shocked at how many voted YANBU. Especially given the news site itself- Israel violated international law in obliterating Gaza, but sure - fuel the immigration rage fire in the UK to incite the removal of more international laws and clauses because you hate Palestinians. YABU. What a monster this woman and her three kids, to try to fight for her and her children’s rights to the best of a bad situation! I wish everyone had that strength to fight for their families. Families are good for the economy believe it or not… You would rather send her back and her family to Gaza to slowly starve to death?

I do see other examples of this law that people are angry about and I understand it’s frustrating in the context of the several living crises we are going through, but why do some always try to pit people in need against other people in need? It’s great to question cases and laws but when we start to slash away our rights out of anger (because yes they are supposed to be human rights for everyone-) I don’t think we are trying hard enough to find a solution.

Which part of the ECHR legislation was applied?

Which law?

I'm surprised you'd want to give up so many rights so easily.

With the ECHR, we have far greater protections of speech/expression and privacy, and has helped expose government cover ups, like Hillsborough and the Infected Blood Scandal.

Immigration rulings do often seem less than ideal, but I fear that they're being used as the thin end of the wedge in terms of garnering public support for having an unaccountable and overreaching government.

How have we benefited from taking all these people in?

How do we benefit from not controlling our borders?

Exactly, red carpet was laid out for Ukrainians, why can’t Gazan’s be afforded the same. An active war zone, mass starvation, children dying left and right…

You realise most migrants are working? Paying taxes? The percentage of asylum seeking migrants is very small and they aren't entitled to a lot of the support other people here get. The VAST majority go on to work and pay taxes. So why are you suggesting they never will pay into the state?

If you're going to peddle hatred at the very least inform yourself of the facts first.

Also the reason why you're in this position with your pension and why public services are on their knees is because of YEARS of intentional under cutting public services by our politicians - who we voted for. And it is also a very direct of brexit - who we also voted for.

In terms of people living on the streets, I think it's really important to recognise that the reasons why people end up sleeping rough are extremely complex. We could have houses going spare and we would still have people sleeping rough. I work with homelessness just incase you're wondering how I know. Also if you're seeking asylum and you are granted refugee status you go on the housing waiting list and are just as homeless as anyone else. There is no queue jumping.

If people are genuinely concerned about public spending and access to public resources then they have to direct that anger and frustration to our political representatives who have the means to change it and who are also responsible for it. Targeting vulnerable people who have no power to enact any change isn't going to secure anything for anyone. It just keeps us distracted and takes the heat off government where it belongs.

The media and government language is very specific- "illegal migrants" is completely inapplicable to someone coming to the UK to claim asylum. It is PERFECTLY legal for them to do that. Outstaying a student or working visa is a different matter and totally applicable but that's not who this rhetoric is being applied to. Why do you think that is? It's scapegoating at its finest.

Article 8

We gave up significant control of our borders when we voted for Brexit.

That was the overall voters choice.

Do you have a view on how many Gazans we should take?

We really need to get rid of the ECHR so we can bring back capital punishment. This is the only deterrent to benefit scroungers, hard lefties, trade unionists, illegal immigrants and unmarried mothers. Stringing a few of them up before a game of footie would rile the crowds and also make for good half-time entertainment. It is a kindness I tell you.

Rupert Lowe gets my vote as he is the only one making sense to repair our country. I am sick and tired of foreign human rights, they have no place in British society. No right thinking Englishman and woman would ever want European human rights darkening rheir door.

Did you enjoy that sanctimony?

Also let's not forget that parts of the UK have a LONG history of emigration fleeing war and famine. But I guess its do as I say not as I do isn't it.

I'm fleeing.

The best argument for keeping the ECHR isn’t that it stops future Governments from eroding our human rights, because it clearly doesn’t do that, as such a future Government can remove us from the ECHR and erode our human rights regardless!

Rather, it is that it provides a balance on Parliament, and provides a check against it from inadvertently passing legislation undermining human rights. The ECHR only has value where the Government of the day values the role of the ECHR to do this.

Keeping the ECHR in order to prevent a future Reform Government from eroding human rights, is a bit like trying to protect your valuables by locking a safe with a key, and then giving that safe to a burglar along with the key…. and then expecting that the burglar won’t use the key to open the safe!

No, I’m comparing two situations where children are at considerable risk of being abducted or murdered by a highly militarised nation state intent on seizing land and property. Same shit, different century.