To think it's time to leave the ECHR?

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www.thejc.com/news/uk/gazan-family-refugee-status-asylum-rejection-gwsq2c8b

Okay.

Not sure why I was invited to that conversation then.

More info here about the surrounding Muslim State's position -

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

Egypt and Jordan are safe. People holiday in Egypt so it can’t be that bad. 🤷‍♀️

Apparently it's bad that I actually enjoyed Dubai

Another be kinder who can't manage basic civility.

Apparently it's bad that I actually enjoyed Dubai as well on holiday

That about sums it up, it seems they don't exactly have a cosy relationship with their neighbours.

During the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, in 1990, Palestinians living in Kuwait (led by Yasser Arafat) did themselves no favours by siding with the attacker.

This resulted in the expulsion of Palestinians from Kuwait (1990–91) and was the largest forced displacement of Palestinians from an Arab state, involving the removal or flight of approximately 380,000–400,000 individuals—out of a pre-invasion population of 400,000–450,000—who had formed a key part of Kuwait's expatriate labor force as teachers, engineers, doctors, and civil servants.
Triggered by the Palestine Liberation Organization's (PLO) leadership under Yasser Arafat publicly endorsing Saddam Hussein's August 1990 invasion and seven-month occupation of Kuwait, the expulsions stemmed from Kuwaiti perceptions of Palestinians as a "fifth column" that had betrayed their host country through widespread collaboration with Iraqi forces, including administrative support, intelligence provision, and participation in looting.

The government doesn’t agree. Large parts of both Egypt and Jordan are under travel advisories.

Yes, that doesn’t include tourist areas of Egypt you’re referring to. But getting there may be difficult, as without flying, you’d have to pass through areas that our government at least recognises as dangerous.

That may be true but the bottom line is that Egypt doesn't want to take any refugees.

This is a bit like being at school - I’m not bothered what Egypt wants to do.

Our policy making shouldn’t be centred around what other countries are doing. They should be centred around what’s best for us, and what is our responsibility.

@ChunkyMonkey36 They should be centred around what’s best for us, and what is our responsibility.

So you think we have a responsibility to relocate the entire Middle east into UK because it will be "better for us" because "it's our responsibility".?

Really?

Please explain.

And while you are at it, please tell us how many Gazan refugees you will take into your home?

You’d think they do going by some of the comments they post on here 🙄

Quite funny how, for some, Western decolonisation means we have to centre ourselves and wedge in our western-based analysis in every geopolitical situation.

Personally OP, I believe the foundation of democracy in systems like the UK - and it's a very good, robust system - is the supremacy of Parliament.

I'm not a fan of democratic nation states being bound to organisations that exist outside of the nation state and can over-ride the lawful decisions of Parliament and the courts - the bodies ultimately answerable to the voters. I think it's anti-democratic in a fundamental way.

It's also superfluous in a sense. Clearly no European nation will stay in an organisation like that unless they overall agree with the principles it espouses. If it's coming back regularly with rulings that are not acceptable to the people of their nation, they are going to have a moral and democratic obligation to leave.

On the other hand, if they do agree, there's no point to it - it's just adding another layer of bureaucracy, they could come up with the same kinds of laws and rulings domestically.

In terms of this ruling specifically - it seems to me that telling nations that if they accept a refugee, they are now legally obligated to accept their entire extended family is grossly over-stepping, and also going to create all kinds of trouble down the road in terms of European countries being willing to accept refugees. That system is already under stress, I think a ruling like this could easily start to tear it apart.

Basically you are saying here that you don't believe in democratic government. You'd rather that some other body (presumably one with the "right" ideals you agree with) to make laws for the nation and set policy.

Of course there will be no guarantee such a body will continue to have the kinds of policies you agree with, but I suppose if democratic process isn't important to you that doesn't matter? Though if so - why care about policy in the first place? Seems a rocky perspective.

Iran is actually host to more refugees than anywhere else in the region. To give an idea of numbers millions of Afghans went there when the Taliban returned to power. There has recently been returns ( forced and voluntary of 1.9 million Afghans ) but there’s still around 4 million about 1.5 million have confirmed refugee status.

They also host a smaller number of Iraq refugees. It’s interesting that whilst people are fleeing Iran for safety people have also fled to them.

Regardless Iran isn’t going to take in Gazan refugees. Their funding of Hamas has helped create this situation . Hamas and Iran do not care for ordinary Gazans, they’d much rather they starved slowly on camera tbh.

Erm, no I don’t believe the “entire Middle East” is our responsibility. That’s a bit of a stretch, isn’t it.

However I do think as human beings we have a moral responsibility to people that are being blown up. Whether they be Ukrainian or Palestinian. Within reason, we should be helping those people.

We may have problems of our own. But my son isn’t likely to get blown up at school. Perspective, and decency.

Humanity shouldn’t require an explanation.

how many decisions has the ECHR made overruling our courts over the years?

A cheap argument that is baseless.

its also worth pointing out that the home office appealed the decision and had it overturned - this is just right wing propoganda to get you Daily Mail readers triggered.

I'm glad to say your son is also not likely, unless you are Jewish to require security when he goes to school. There is a much bigger picture and it's more far reaching than being humane. Everybody deserves to be safe.

It was in the Daily Mail, so it didn't happen. 🙄

I think it’s more that Egypt doesn’t want to take in Gazan refugees. They do host over a million registered refugees along with many millions ( estimates are about 9 million) of displaced and migrant people from around the region. There is substantial pushback from the Egyptian people who want illegal/ unregistered immigration reduced, sound familiar?

Historically Palestinian refugees have been problematic, there’s no real way to seperate Hamas from the civilian population and Iran would use Gazan refugees to destabilise Sinai region of Egypt. I’m sure many Egyptians have a lot of sympathy for for Gazans but it’d be seen as madness to invite extremism into your own country.

That is interesting, but it also raises a lot of questions.

Like - how did such a crazy ruling get made in the first place? What is the point of the body if in the end it will come down to the nation state accepting the ruling? what if it hadn't been over-turned?

There was, at one time, a general feeling that there was a kind of unity on what we might call "European values" and how those should be instantiated within nations.

That seems to be under significant stress now, and not just within the UK. Which is interesting in a way because it suggests that the court isn't reflecting the values of quite a few of the members. So - where are its values coming from? What is this "Europe" that doesn't seem to be in line with what Europeans think?

I have a lot of doubts about the long term viability of the ECHR, and not specifically because of the UK.