To think this is a step too far from the SNP?

[heyjudedontmakeitsad]

The SNP have released a statement today saying they are “raising a glass” to Argentina.

Now I understand the whole football thing, anyone but England etc.

But Argentina killed Scottish troops in 1982. It’s too much.

Which knuckle-dragging rancid arsehole of bitterness is this?

Oh I do think it’s banter, isn’t that what sport is about - half my team meetings are taken up with people bad mouthing whoever side they don’t support if they’re doing badly - it’s a shame the Scottish football team didn’t play like they played to qualify but it is a hugely different environment.

I’ve been ABE for ages but hoping England can pull it out the bag tonight just because it’s been a long time for them, they’re the underdog here.

Which country/city.

You see banter - but others see it differently. Maybe the SNP PR team needs to do better. Perhaps they could follow the lead of the Ryanair PR team on X who do great put downs and humour.

Wow what jealous little sad acts the SNP really are. Scotland has so much to boast about, and yet they demean the country that they profess to love with such childness.

Do better, SNP.

No surprises from the utterly repugnant SNP.

Hopefully with the way things are going, they will be bankrupt soon and consigned to history. Sturgeon needs to be in the dock. And I say this as someone who supports Scottish independence.

It is.

But I think it's poor or a political party, and the ruling one at that to be making statements like that.

The SNP is a bunch of members, not a bunch of MSPs. I imagine they didn't canvass the members opinions and they have no right to speak for them.

Personally I think they're an incompetent bunch of snivelling fools who would do anything to distract from their awful record on health, drugs, education, and women's safety... but I'd never put out a press release saying so.

I always find Mumsnet really interesting on this topic.

Some MNers seem to take ABE attitudes deadly seriously and very personally. While of course not all Scots think the same way on this topic it’s not really as “bitter” or agressive as many posters seem to assume.

Scotland has its own distinct cultural identity, we arent just North British. Quite a lot of ABE is just asserting that cultural identity.

Part of it is rivalry based, if you have a local rivalry between two sporting teams you naturally cheer for whoever their opponents are, ABE is just that on a bigger stage.

Remember too that the relationship between England and Scotland is asymmetric.

Saying “but I supported Scotland” isn’t in any way the same,

Scotland doesn't have a centuries long history of political and military oppression against England. (And if the Falkland’s War upsets you think about how you’d feel if Argentina had four hundred years worth of aggression towards England and was still running roughshod over your political decisions)

In my experience very, very few people are actively anti English. Most people have English family members, friends, neighbours, colleagues etc etc

Saying ABE is not saying “we hate the English” it’s about asserting our identity as separate to a larger, stronger, frequently thoughtless and not always very kind next door neighbour.

ABE is generally said with wry good humour. I get that Scottish sense of humour is different to English.

Think of it this way, if a little kid has been bullied for years by a bigger kid, it’s fair enough to have a bit of a giggle if the big kid drops his ice cream. It not really much deeper than that.

You may think that but it’s not how many see it. My English colleague is hurt and offended. She feels ‘othered’ and unwelcome here which is shameful don’t you think? and is EXACTLY what the SNP meant by it! But yeh, civil and joyous. ‘Banter’.

ABE is generally said with wry good humour

Yes, football banter which is reflective of the sardonic nature of Scottish humour, and yet it's frequently met with ethno-nationalism and slurs in kind.

The umpteen threads about ABE on Mumsnet perfectly encapsulate what ABE is about. It's a tool for showing up humourless idiots who see everything through the prism of identity, and immediately respond to anything they perceive to be mocking theirs, even football-related banter, with typical flag-shagging nationalism.

It attracts morons like flies to shite.

Exactly. Banter amd rivalry is fine, but some scots and other devolved nations take it another level.

I can honestly say if Scotland had got this far I'd be supporting them not buying argie shirts and spitting bile about the team.

I mean look at them all Saka, Bellingham, that big Dan bloke, Kane. They all just seem such nice boys. I must admit in the old days of Rooney, Gerrard and Terry etc I wasn't a fan now they were such arrogant arseholes but this lot, what's not to like!

You say 'it's frequently met with ethno-nationalism and slurs in kind' and then go on with the slur 'It attracts morons like flies to shite'

Make ya mind up hun! Are you a slurrer or a slurred

An English person supporting Scotland just isn’t the same as the other way round, it really really isn’t. Centuries of history explain why.

And it isn’t the players that the Scots don’t like. It’s the media and the commentators and the general jingoistic tone of all England World Cup discussion. From an outside perspective (and make no mistake Scots are outside) it’s eye rolling lay tiresome.

Instead of all the chippy bitterness, could they not find an English player (or even an Argentinian player!) with some Scottish ancestry and make something of that? Something with a bit more thought that the usual ABE crap.

It's a point about the fact that if you go and look in any of the threads about ABE on here, they generally reflect what happens anywhere when a Scot mentions that they'll be supporting England's opponent.

A choice about a football match is often met with comments about "Jocks", "Scroungers", Scotland being financially propped up etc etc.

This is the whole point of the ABE wind-up - it exposes tiny-minded English exceptionalists for what they are, because they immediately respond to a wind-up about a sport with jibes about nationality, because they are nothing more than thin-skinned, precious little xenophobes who take any perceived jibe at anything English as an attack on English identity due to the fact they percieve everything through the prism of identity themselves.

As I said, it's perfectly functioning moron-detector.

I’m very sorry that your colleague is upset and offended.

But she is choosing to live in a country where she is indeed, “other”. I’ve lived in other countries you never really entirely integrate.

And her experience isn’t universal. My English MIL isn’t either upset or offended. My English neighbours aren't upset or offended.

If someone has been an arse to your colleague it’s mostly likely because they are an arse, not because she is English.

That's been done.

Carlos Mac Allister. You won't find a more Scottish-looking bloke anywhere on the planet. Played international football for Argentina in the 90s. There are others.

They're a bunch of crooks whose leader should be behind bars.

I hate to use an old mn cliché but you really need to unclench a bit you'll end up with an ulcer all your bile about 'morons'.

Repeat after me 'go on England!'. You'll feet better, promise.

If only the snp paid as much attention to their finances as they do to footie matches scots may all be better off.

The Argentinian regime??? The military dictatorship that prosecuted the Falklands war was kicked out 43 years ago and Argentina has been a democracy ever since.

A democracy

It is a wee bit ironic in the face of people saying “don’t take ABE too seriously” to tell them to unclench.

If you are of a pro UK mindset, you don't regard any UK citizen as 'other'. That is the whole point. We have the same passport.
There has always been lots of geographical mobility for work etc. I had lots of Scottish and Welsh teachers in my English Comprehensive school. No one would ever have suggested they had no right to live in England.