AIBU to ask whether the death penalty should apply for certain crimes in the UK?

[PenelopeJoanSterling]

Because the topics got mixed up on my previous thread i thought id ask here, for certain types of crime in the uk, would you be either for or against the death penalty for certain crimes and why ?

Well OK but that's a debate about the meaning and values of Christanity then not the DP.

"No one expects the Spanish Inquisition" remember that?!

Excellent points.

well if our judicial system is that flawed, we need an overhaul and we all have a big problem. I’d like to think things have improved since the early 20th century and where there is dna, confession/multiple witnesses etc and it used sparingly in the most shocking cases (places like india and japan do this, not that they are beacons of justice but my point is in how it’s applied), i see no issue. There needs to be a high threshold met but I would gladly pull the trigger for recent scumbags: verley, couzens, letby,

"How DARE THEY murder that baby!!!!""

"The State should murder 2x someone else's baby! That's absolutely justifiable!!!!!"

Mindless.

I don't trust the government with it, and for that reason I'm against the death penalty.

That being said, I absolutely would not give a flying fuck about the loss of people like Preston Davey's killer and mass shooters, where there is absolutely 0 doubt what's happened.

There are some people who absolutely cannot be rehabilitated. And for me, it's honestly about what someone deserves, rather than it being a deterrent (which we know it isn't). I work in mental health services, and see the effects of things like childhood sexual abuse time and time again. It feels like there is barely any justice for victims sometimes.

Regardless, I can't endorse state sanctioned murder. There are cases we are absolutely sure (such as witnessed shootings), but the government would absolutely abuse it, and I also don't want innocent people killed (because if we allowed it for some cases even with 100% proof, it's a slippery slope to allowing it for others). So I'm against the death penalty, but whilst also holding the opinion some people are absolutely a waste of oxygen and shouldn't be on our planet.

so you support Axel Rudakubana then? Poor chap should have been told his behaviour wasn’t the best… but alls ok. He can do whatever he wants with no impunity!!

Sorry, where did I say that?

I didn’t. I said that people invoke these tragedies in support of the death penalty in bad faith, in order to shut down the argument.

It isn't, really.
"Thou shalt not kill" is words of one syllable (in English). And Calvary a pretty clear path.
People are tempted to twist things and churches evolve, splinter, etc. People are imperfect.
But this is the central truth.
Britain is largely a Christian heritage country and the King is the head of the Anglican church.
A meaningful update to that would be eschewing the death penalty.

@PenelopeJoanSterling you still haven't addressed my points on recidivism and longer term cultural impact. Why is that?

But my point was that in say Victorian times when they were simultaneously abolishing the slave trade and executing people for a variety of offences the people regarded themselves as very Christian (and they had the same Commandments).

I think anyone who followed the Preston Davey trial would gladly see Jamie Varley hang - after a few decades suffering in prison first. He tortured and raped a baby to death. He was the only person in the house with Preston when the abuse and murder took place, there was also video & DNA evidence so zero chance of miscarriage of justice.

She doesn’t know what it means!

For a case like Lucy Letby's? Or? Most likely yes? And that case is really iffy.

No thank you.

I wouldn’t. It would give him multiple more years in the limelight in court. I’d rather he was just locked up and forgotten about, while the money that would be spent on his appeals is spent on improving the social care system.

No. Because it's not enough of a deterrent, it's wrong to give the Government this kind of power and there is absolutely no way to prevent any innocent people being put to death. Even 1 would be too many. There are absolutely some people who commit heinous crimes & don't need to be here but then they should just be locked away and let the world forget about them.

He doesn’t interfere in free will.

There were plenty of people who wanted to abolish the death penalty in Victorian Britain. Charles Dickens campaigned to end public hangings. At the start of the Victorian period, there were 200 capital offences, by the end just 5. The Victorians were trying to rid themselves of the death penalty.

Bring back hanging for those sick bastards. Why should the tax payer pay for them to languish in prison! They’re no good to society and never will be!

He doesn’t interfere with free will.

Read up on the history of the Black church and also on Christianity among abolitionists?

Christ's own disciples behaved terribly some of the time. Calling oneself a Christian does not mean becoming perfect. It means we have an example of something in, and of, but also other than our fallen world's confusions and our often bad decisions. And the most loving Friend to help us do better if we choose to.

No, because it’s not a deterrent, the police and courts sometimes get it wrong, and I think it sends the wrong message. Society doesn’t get less violent by adding in more state sanctioned violence.

Just this week, Ruth Ellis was given a conditional pardon, and there are many other examples of miscarriages of justice.

Don’t get me wrong, I feel the same anger as everyone when I read stories of child murderers and rapists, and the lowest of the low, but my anger and revulsion shouldn’t be a sound basis for the administration of justice.

The death penalty costs more than life in prison, unless you plan on also doing away with appeals, defence lawyers, forensics done on behalf of the defence... all things that have been used to overturn wrongful convictions in the past.

François Mitterand's brilliant work towards abolition of the death penalty in France is worth looking at.

rude but true, ill need to google it

You could ask that about anything that kills his flock. Disease, famine, pestilence, heatwaves, flood, war...the list is endless yet god stands by. No excuse for the death penalty.