AIBU to ask whether the death penalty should apply for certain crimes in the UK?

[PenelopeJoanSterling]

Because the topics got mixed up on my previous thread i thought id ask here, for certain types of crime in the uk, would you be either for or against the death penalty for certain crimes and why ?

Someone I knew well was murdered. I still don't want the Death Penalty for rhe murderer. He may never get out of prison due to circumstances of his crime. Happy for him to suffer in there. The family of the victim feel the same.
Certainly doesn't make the state any better than the guy in jail if death penalty brought back.

It's incredibly bleak to be essentially negotiating with rapists. The acceptance that obviously men will continue to rape women, and we'd better let them live because otherwise they'll murder their victims as well... It's a bitter pill to swallow. It feels like losing.

And while I can understand in some situations, the death penalty might discourage reporting, it might encourage others. It certainly wouldn't have stopped me. Anyway, it would be very simple to have the victim's wishes carry weight as to whether it's death or a life sentence, if that was a serious barrier to reporting.

@OtterlyAstounding - I don't think opposing the death penalty for rape constitutes acceptance that men will continue to rape women. Rape should still be penalised. In any case, there is a practical reality: if you try to implement the death sentence for a non-homicide crime, then you give the criminal an incentive to murder their victim - the penalty is the same and you remove the witness, thereby reducing the chances of getting caught. That said, I don't think homicide should carry the death penalty either. I am opposed to the death penalty in all cases anyway, for the reasons I gave upthread including that, for me, (i) giving the state the power to kill as a form of punishment is a terrifying thing and inevitably there are cases where it is gets misused (even if sanctioned); (ii) miscarriages of justice cannot be undone; (iii) it leads to higher legal costs and uses up more public resources because of all the stages which need to be gone through to get to the implementation of the death penalty - so the cost to the public purse is higher; and (iv) it turns other people into murderers (i.e. those who deliver the death penalty). The death penalty is really about revenge, not punishment - I don't think we are supposed to use death as a punishment.

It’s not all about tech, plenty of the American miscarriages of justice are just plain old police corruption. And I don’t think you could look at the Met for instance and say that its recent record is reliable enough to be murdering people on its evidence.

This is true but if you did only implement the death penalty where you were absolutely certain of guilt, you would have a situation where, the sentence depended on the strength of the evidence. So for a serial killer who targeted strangers and covered up his tracks well, there might often be some doubt as to guilt which would prevent the death penalty applying. Whereas you could apply it for someone like the Southport killer. I don’t think that particularly serves justice.

Of course it should. It's 2026, we have the benefit of DNA, along with other means, to be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt whether a person was involved in a violent crime. It's the duty of a civilised society to remove those who choose to commit evil against innocent people for the greater good.

If the UK ever had a referendum on the death penalty, I would vote for without any hesitation.

I can understand the practical reasoning in regards to rape, but as I said, it's a bitter pill to swallow. You're essentially compromising with rapists, in order to reduce the rate at which they murder as well.

Personally, I agree with you on point (i), but disagree on all other points. Miscarriages of justice would probably kill fewer people than dogs do every year, it only leads to higher costs if you allow appeals to drag on for years, and killing people is something that both soldiers, and those who perform assisted suicide, do all the time. It'd probably have higher job satisfaction and be less traumatising than working in a job where you had to kill (innocent, healthy) animals constantly.

Revenge? Possibly sometimes, but it's also just about getting rid of people who have proven themselves to be an incredibly harmful, net negative to society, rather than keeping them alive for no real reason whatsoever. I don't see any moral reason to keep a sadistic paedophile alive for 30+ years in prison, for instance. It's arguably more moral, imo, to just cleanly kill a person who is not suitable to be in society, and go on with life, rather than keeping them in a box until they die.

In the past we would've probably just exiled people, evicting them from the tribe, which was most likely a near certain death sentence - but unfortunately that's not an option anymore.

No. One person wrongly executed is one person too many. The inventor of DNA fingerprinting has only ever advocated for it to be used as supporting evidence and nobody should build a case around it. Too many ways for DNA to be found at a scene. Not to mention, we’re supposed to better than the people who commit the crimes.

The OP knows all about this as I told them
in the thread she already has. This and the need for medics, engineers, supply chain for imports… small matter of an executioner too. Many talk the talk but they would not walk the walk. All this and reluctance from
juries to convict and judges to take part in a judicial system where this is an outcome.

small matter of an executioner too

Nah, there are plenty of raging facebook mums on here who never hesitate to pipe up that they'd gladly wield the axe themselves.

I live in Ireland and am strongly in favour of the death penalty.

Big consolation when your DS or DD is hanged for a crime they didn't commit, to know that the risks of this happening were 'min.' All human systems are vulnerable to error. If we had capital punishemnt, there would be errors.

Anyway, it dehumanises society and appeals to the very worst in people. There are some people I wouldn't mourn for a second, but condoning state murder is a complete 'no.'

I think traditionally executioners were usually men.

State sanctioned killings are never a good idea.

Really? Considering the Birmingham 6 etc?

No. I do not trust this (or any!) government enough to believe that it would not get abused.

In my opinion, any country that has the death penalty is backwards and uncivilised, so it's a definite no from me.

Military ? hows they any different ?

They aren't (in theory) targeting civilians and killing them for crimes they commit.

Also, if Man A kills someone, and then Man B from government kills Man A.... Should Man B then be killed for killing someone? 🤔

In your world, what crimes would people be killed for?

Also, if it was your child that had been wrongfully convicted and then killed. Would you still be happy for this punishment to exist? Because mistakes will, did and do happen.

Should prison officers be imprisoned for imprisoning people? This line of argument never makes sense to me.

and puzzles me too

Yea, nothing manipulated about that stat at all. The fact guns are hard to get hold of on average, being possible doesn't mean the average robber knows how to walk down the street and get one, and that guns in general are rarer is completely irrelevant. An effort not needed for robbery, won't be taken by someone trying to do something quick and easy.

The biggest deterrent to committing serious crime isn’t the punishment, it’s the likelihood of getting caught.

No one thinks I’ll commit that premeditated murder because if I get caught it’ll only be life imprisonment. They do it because they think they won’t get caught.

The other type of murder - the heat of the moment, crime of passion - people aren’t thinking about getting caught or the punishment anyway, so it can’t be a deterrent.

It opens up questions and thoughts for anyone thinking, and not looking to hold a view regardless of anything else.

What is it that puzzles you, who do you think it is the same?