AIBU to ask whether the death penalty should apply for certain crimes in the UK?

[PenelopeJoanSterling]

Because the topics got mixed up on my previous thread i thought id ask here, for certain types of crime in the uk, would you be either for or against the death penalty for certain crimes and why ?

But also what’s being lost in this conversation is that we are not appreciating that the uk is a relatively low crime country

which brings me back to, what’s good enough? I can promise, if we were Norway, we would still be talking about whether we should kill murderers. The conversation isn’t related to levels of crime, just it’s mere existence

That would just be an incentive for paedophiles to murder their victims, as it would reduce their risk of being caught and the potential punishment would be no worse.

Small world we live in. There was more than one victim. I don't want to talk about specific cases, my post was in reply to another poster who DID want to talk specifically about this case. "Violently vengeful" ... no dear.

I always used to be against it because of the possibility of error.

Maybe I’ve become more jaded, but now I think, if guilt is absolutely certain for some of the most heinous crimes, then yes.

Some people have done things so evil they have forfeited the right to remain part of society.

The recent case of a baby being abused to death via oral rape springs to mind. I’d find it hard to justify keeping that person alive just to avoid “murdering” them. You’re removing a cancer from humanity.

There’s also a theory (and I’m sure someone here will debunk it) that western civilisation IS as polite and peaceable as it is (relatively speaking) BECAUSE there was a period of time where fairly minor crimes carried death penalties.

As opposed to the current situation where no paedophiles ever murder their victims?!

I imagine that many criminals' parents are devastated and heartbroken that their children are incarcerated at all, so I'm not sure that the feelings of a criminal's family should really be taken into account.

Personally, however, if my child went on a stabbing spree murdering small girls, I think (devastation and horror aside) I'd feel as though it was my responsibility to remove from the world what I'd brought into it. I'm not sure I'd be comforted by knowing my murderous child would be spending decades locked away in prison, where he could hurt guards, or be hurt by other prisoners. That would just be awful in a multitude of ways.

Absolutely all of this.

One could argue it's violent, but it's not necessarily vengeful. It could simply be utilitarian.

No reason to increase the number.

No. There's too many cases of innocent people being killed on death row.

Living in prison for the rest of your life in solitary confinement is worse punishment than death anyway. Look at people like Huntley. Constantly trying to commit suicide so he got what he wanted? That's not really justice either is it?

“I'd feel as though it was my responsibility to remove from the world what I'd brought into it. I'm not sure I'd be comforted by knowing my murderous child would be spending decades locked away in prison, where he could hurt guards, or be hurt by other prisoners.”

I find this utterly bizarrre. I don’t actually think it’s true (although I can imagine you firmly think it is) what kind of parent wants to kill their child because they’ve killed?

this never happens in real life so it’s not something people in this situation seem to think

If it’s not vengeful why are you doing it for the victims families?

But you're talking about adapting the principle for penal purposes.

Did that poster say it should be done for the families? Or just add that their thoughts were with the families?

Why is it bizarre? As a parent, would you not feel responsible in a way, for the deaths your child caused? That you brought that harm into the world? That potentially, it was your failure in parenting somewhere that made them turn out that way? If they were a serial rapist, or a serial killer, or a mass murderer, would you not rather blot them out, than have them live some twisted, embittered life in prison, believing that they were justified in their actions?

Personally, I would still love my child, but I would prefer that they died than that they continued to exist as some hate-filled rapist/murderer, locked away for decades and decades. Either way, it would be devastating, though, and difficult to live with.

But then I'm autistic, and I'm often told my takes on things are 'strange'.

Personally I would favour it for murderers and paedophimes but it is not the mark of a civilised society and the risk is you get the wrong person. Although that is less likely given the strength and accuracy of forensic evidence these days.

I feel that the Pakistani rape gang participants, the killers of baby Preston, the Nottinghamshire killer, the father of Sara Sharif really don’t deserve anything but to die and I would happily be the executioner as it would make our society so much better. Until there was a case where the wrong person was killed.

Yes saying you’d want to kill your son for being a murderer or rapist is really strange (and if you actually did this, everyone would be saying “well that’s why her son is a murderer then”)

“Pakistani rape gang participants”

even though they are also grooming victims?

I didn't say I'd want to. Or that I would do it.

I said I'd feel it was my responsibility, as I'd brought them into the world.

If it’s your responsibility you’d have to, wouldn’t you?

Do you feel sympathy for boys and men who choose to gang rape girls?

No, not necessarily. People shirk their responsibilities all the time. And feeling responsible isn't the same thing as being responsible. Additionally, regardless of responsibility, breaking the law is best not done.

Gangs are formed by grooming.

i can’t say I feel sympathy particularly, but this is a fact and our justice system should work on facts not our sympathies

your question isn’t the gotcha you think

It wasn't a gotcha. It was a question.

I'm not sure why you brought up the fact that these gang rapists and abusers were groomed into gangs, unless you were trying to elicit some degree of sympathy, though? Because otherwise, how is it relevant that they were 'groomed' into committing violent acts of sadism against others?