AIBU to wonder if anti-English feeling is mostly about sport

[Batsratscatsgnats]

If you support anyone but England in football or other sports do you dislike English people generally or is it just in sports?

It's England fans who turned on their own players after they missed penalties and used the moat awful racist language. I don't support other teams where there have been times of violence and hooliganism, and it's part of why I don't support England. I watched a documentary a few months ago about the Euro final at Wembley and the issues the English fans were causing and the treatment some Italian fans were given as they were leaving the stadium.

Some football fans are the worst types of people. I know it's not all, I have friends who support England and they manage to do so in a positive way. But I have seen our town get smashed up too many times following a defeat.

Where do you live that your town gets smashed up? By a country mile, the countries with the biggest football hooligan elements are Russia, Croatia, Serbia, Poland, Argentina and Brazil. English ‘ultra’ groups are a handful of racist scallies, not the huge support that these foreign ultra groups get.

I strongly believe that the reason there has been little trouble during this World Cup is simply because that particular element of English supporters can’t afford to go. Only wealthier fans have made the trip, given the huge cost of tickets, flights and accommodation. It’s not a £100 ticket and a cheap Ryan Air hop across the channel that is the norm for the Euros.

Nowhere exciting. Windows have been smashed, the main roundabout gets vandalised etc.

I don't support England because of my experiences with them. That was asked and that was my reply. It's a bit whataboutery to say "other teams are worse". I'm sure they are but I didn't like the behaviour I've seen from England fans so I'm glad when it's over. I won't be supporting Russia, Brazil or any of the others you've listed either but not sure of the relevance.

this whole thread (and others) is about inability to listen

time and time again it is explained why people may be cheering against England and it’s all dismissed or met with whataboutery

🤦‍♀️

It’s not whataboutery. The only place that there have been reports of drunken fans since 2021 has been in central London.

There is nothing about England fans breaking windows, only some isolated reports of criminal damage by club fans.

It’s not whataboutery to say “England fans are not hooligans” and offer proof of that fact or point out the people are getting the fans confused with countries that do have a hooligan culture. Either that or they are harking back 40 or 50 years to when they were violent. Those hooligans would be pensioners now, or dead.

But to say “I won’t support England because their fans are hooligans” is just a plain lie. If you gather tens of thousands of people together, there will be a fight, in no matter what setting. By all means say “I won’t support England because I hate football” or whatever truthful reason you want, but don’t lie about it.

How dare English people defend themselves - especially with the usual accusation of being the world's most violent fans.

I don't know if you've heard of something called television?

England v Wales - rugby, not football - delivered ITV’s biggest peak audience of 2026 so far, with 5 million viewers across ITV1 and ITVX. Google it, I'm not making it up. There's lot of reasons why people can't or won't schlep to Cardiff to watch the game live - turnstile prices are a joke for a start.

In terms of people who say they follow football and/or rugby in Wales it's something like 45% versus 47%, so negligible difference. If you think bums in seats is the only way to record interest in a sport you're blithely ignoring the fact that rugby is part of our culture in a way that football isn't.

This wasn't even the point though, it's about the way that the media will bleat on endlessly about England and sometimes it's as if the other bits of the UK don't exist. That is the point. All that said, I was in the pub on Saturday, watched the rugby and then watched the football. I didn't cheer on England because there really wasn't a reason to... I didn't care who was winning... but on Wednesday... well I used to work in the Falkland Islands, so I think it's clear where my allegiance will be!

People are talking about perception of English fans. It’s like a BRAND.

they are also talking gabout perception due to colonialism and other historical issues. Or behaviour of tourists. Or sense of superiority (mostly misplaced)

you can argue until you are blue in the face, this is not going to change that perception given it’s clearly so widespread . Especially not by arguing on mumsnet.

just accept it and move on, it’s harmless and only manifests itself around World Cup and Eurovision.

@BlackRowan You’ll have to excuse me, but I come from a place where we fully understand the upshot of football fans being wrongly labelled hooligans when they weren’t by small-minded bigots. Tell the Hillsborough families how “harmless” it is.

And if people believe that English fans are hooligans, despite the facts proving unequivocally that they are not, maybe those people need educating?

Or maybe people go on their experiences. I actually used to support England (I remember the heartbreak of 1990) but then when I worked in pubs I went right off them, from the trouble some of the fans caused. That's okay, that's my experience and it's not yours. You support England, I won't. I don't understand why that bothers you so much.

Edited because I pressed the submit button too soon.

I don’t have a problem with you not supporting England, that’s up to you. I have a problem with you stating that you refuse to support England because the fans are thugs. You can say “I don’t like the fans”, that’s your opinion and you are perfectly entitled to that but it’s shit to accuse perfectly law-abiding football fans of being criminals when the facts say otherwise. We know how things end up when football supporters are demonised.

I haven't accused the fans of being thugs. I have clearly stated that there have been incidences where some fans have behaved terribly. I have experienced it and seen it in documentaries. That's factual not an opinion. I have also said I know of English fans that enjoy the game and have never caused issues.

If you want to link that to an event like Hillsborough as you are trying to suggest then I'd kindly recommend warming up before that leap.

@TrixieFatell It’s not a “leap”. The Hillsborough campaign would not have need to be waged for 30 years if snobbish attitudes towards football fans didn’t exist.

So you do concede that the vast majority of football fans are well behaved? So in fact that isn’t really your reason for not supporting England. It’s more likely that you’re not English, or you don’t like football than ‘Some lads had a fight during an England match in the pub 30 years ago’.

I think it needs to be spelt out: a fair few Irish, Welsh & Scots are not "naturally disposed" to support England in anything.

Why?

Grab a history book 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♂️

No as I have clearly stated my reasons for not supporting England are because of my own experiences with their fans. No conceding. I dont like the way they have behaved over the years and am more then happy when they are out of the tournament. Saying. That if they win we might get an extra bank holiday.

I'm not English but have spent most of my life in England.

Well I'm Irish so there is a fair bit of history there. I don't hate English people personally but historically England has a lot to answer for. When it comes to sport the English tend to be incredibly arrogant and then act all shocked when they inevitably get knocked out. Maybe its time they showed a bit of humility?

Laughing at ourselves with "It's coming home" not only shows a sense of humour but most certainly humility. Is it humble to brag about hating England football?

I don’t get this. The one thing English fans have is loads of humility. Even our football song is full of self mockery. Most fans don’t expect England to win (though we really hope they do).

I said this on another thread but I don’t know what media you’re being exposed to in Ireland but I can assure you that NOBODY is shocked in England when we get knocked out. We expect it! Usually in the quarter/semi finals on penalties. 😂

What a load of tosh. We have a SOH when those from Scotland live here and bring their superiority complex along to have an ambiguous dig. We have a great SOH when laughing at arrogant Scots who truly believe that there's no xenophobia or racism over the border and sneer at the English.Talk about a total lack of self awareness.

@MrsPapillon Its definitely the pundits who as soon as England win a game start talking about how this this it, they really could win this time, talking about players like they are Greek hero's. I suppose I get it, England used to be at the centre of an Empire and football is a sort of proxy for all that has been diminished. It could be ordinary English people do have humility but in the media and even online all I see is the usual hubris.

Which particular 'media' figure is so full of 'hubris'? Could you name them?

Because I honestly don't see that at all. On the contrary, they are often quite critical.

England used to be at the centre of an Empire and football is a sort of proxy for all that has been diminished.

What rubbish.

England hasn't been one of the very top teams in international football but they usually do respectably, and are now in the WC semi finals. The English Premier League is the best in the world.

Do you actually know anything about football? Or are you simply imposing your dislike of England and the English onto the sport? I have my suspicions.

Yeah, pundits are ex-footballers so they all think they’re God’s gift. Though that’s the same for them all. We’ve had a lot of foreign ex-players on over here through the World Cup and they’re no different.

I don’t get this argument about the commentators either.

The one valid point is the use of “we” when referring to the England team. But them getting enthusiastic or partisan - it’s their job to get the audience excited and involved. What do you expect them to do?

I actually love the pundits. They start pre-match being all “We can do this! We’ve got the best players in the world!” and by half-time they’re all “Our defence has been shocking. Such and such looks half asleep. Tuchel needs to replace A for B.”

They reflect the mood of the fans really.