AIBU to wonder if anti-English feeling is mostly about sport

[Batsratscatsgnats]

If you support anyone but England in football or other sports do you dislike English people generally or is it just in sports?

England supporters might be flag shaggers, but at least its just the one.

Scotland supporters will be on 3 just this week, their own, Mexico and Norway. To add to the dozens down the years, what an achievement.

ABE is pure bigotry learned at home.
If any of my kids came in saying " anyone but Scotland " they would get a boot up the arse.
Well, not literally.

Are you English?

I think like many things in history it’s complex, at the same time as Scots were empire building and slave owning in the Caribbean the highland clearances were underway. A brutal eviction of tens of thousands, of typically traditional Gaelic speaking communities, this caused a wave of mass immigration and is substantially responsible for the global Scottish diaspora.

There is a dichotomy where the Scots were both oppressor and oppressed. I think the same is true of the Irish who are also documented as owning slaves in the Caribbean but many of the people of Ireland were also suffering under British rule and had to migrate.

At what point do you hold a nation to account for the actions of a minority?

Yes but have lived in Scotland for much of my life.

Yes. Sorry. Reread your previous posts and the one I replied to before you edited.

I don't think it's your nationality that's the problem.

I know it's not my nationality that is the problem.

It's the small minded bigots that is the problem.

The AbE bigots have become louder as England and the English team have become more diverse.

There, problem solved.

Partly because quite frankly, Scotland are 'non threatening' in football. They rarely qualify for major tournaments and have never progressed beyond the group stages. So it's simply not worth getting bothered by them.

This isn't mean to be insulting. It's just the facts.

Well I, personally, don’t think it’s your nationality given your posts on here.

Aye ok 🤐

But could you not say that of the english too. People are more than happy to hold 'the english" accountable for atrocities benefiting a fairly small ruling landowning elite. Working class people didnt have a vote, young children were working in mines, mills and living in slums. The enclosure act forced people into the cities to work in poor conditions in factories. 14 hour days, with cholera and tb outbreaks.

(Im not suggesting this is the same as being colonised like the Irish, or had the brutality of the clearances - which is actually my heritage on my mums side)

but ive lived in England a long time now and I do find the idea that the english working classes werent also opressed by the ruling elite gets forgotten.

I think we all have to accept most of us have very little power and when we use terms like 'the Germans, the Americans, the English' we are meaning 'those with power" which would also apply to "the scottish'

Evidence?

I am English, got better things to do than lie about it one here.

Like a pound shop WUM.

Your own posts.

This was covered up thread, but while terrible the Highland clearances were carried out by:

Clan chieftains (evicting clan members who had been allowed to live in the land by longstanding convention but had no legal right)
Wealthy Scottish landowners, particularly lowlanders
A couple of Wealthy English landowners

The vast majority of those evicted during the highland clearances were evicted by their fellow Scots.
The Peterloo Massacre was a terrible thing. It is not however a reason to hate the French and people would be baffled if I said it was. The Highland Clearances being a reason to for ABE has a similar logical paradox.

Could it be because there are displaced Scottish and Irish people all over the world? But very few displaced English people except those that were shipped to the “colonies”.

There are lots of people who claim descent from England in places like America. For example, the ones who claim to have come over at the time of the Mayflower (which is weird because it would be like one great great great grandparent out of, say, 64 or 128 people).

But I think in America for those people that's almost the default "original American" (because racism) so they downplay the "immigrant" part of their identity and associate it less with the modern English and more with being the ones who "were there first" and "built the country".** Not least because the current England team (and modern England) doesn't fit with what they would define as a Mayflower type heritage (WASPs). I think they should piss off and stay out of England/European business anyway quite frankly.
Because it's the "default" it means people with mixed heritage (eg Joe Biden) are more likely to make a big deal out of their Irish heritage. This is more relevant because the Irish did experience prejudice as immigrants to America so it's more politically relevant as an identity.

** Not all the people with English heritage obviously. But the ones who make a big political deal out of it.

Did you see how many people turned up for the Fiji v Wales game? Even the Welsh didn't give a shit about it.

Your discussion of Scottish identity is interesting, thank you for that. I do think there is a significant difference between Scottish and Irish experience. There would be no precise measure but I suppose the size of the minority is significant and how much it is a structure within a country. Scotland as a nation benefited from the colonies, Ireland did not and was a colony. The main question was answered long ago and I think I spent too much time and energy on this yesterday. The Scottish/ English/ British question within the British Empire seems like naval gazing and focusing internally in an unhelpful way. Some of the comments - childlish, ignorant, thick, victim, Twxt, zenophobic (without understanding what that word means) have been very telling.

There are people in the UK who have an issue accepting its colonial history as negative. From the outside no one else sees the distinction as important. I have worked in African countries who were ruled from the UK where no one has heard of Scotland, Ireland or Northern Ireland.

The often esponsed theory on this thread that if some native people go along with the colony then the UK is no longer the primary responsible party for those actions is incorrect and morally questionable. The balance of power means some people will find a way to get ahead. To see the truth of colonialism you need to focus on how it dealt with opposition and the welfare of people and countries under foreign control.

In the 80’s and 90’s yes, but not now. Decades ago! Also England is not just football fans. I’m English and hate football.

@wellington77 The post was about sport and England . And sorry football violence from English fans has not gone away . World Cup game in Texas and they had police intervening in pub fights - amongst themselves.

That doesn't alter the fact that it is a common term, for a reason.

I'm half Irish, half English but I was so happy for the Scottish when they qualified for the world cup, there was so much joy and pride, it was just wonderful to see all the Scottish people in Boston enjoying the moment.

Some is banter, some quite definately is not 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♀️

Wear a Poppy or UK t-shirt in the Gallowgate area of Glasgow, or Leith on a Friday/Saturday night & find out!

Six people were arrested after the game you mention. None of these were English fans.

There has been four documented arrests of English fans, one of which was for attempting to get into a match with a fake ticket in Miami. The US police have publicly praised the English fans for their behaviour.

There have been 1.25 million international visitors to the USA for the World Cup and very few arrests overall. From the figures given publicly so far, it’s about 60 across the tournament from all nationalities.

But if that’s your reason for hating England fans, you hate all fans because they all have their violent contingent. Some even more so.

Also its not the English fans who've been known to make monkey noises and throw bananas as the black players (thank God)