Page 6 | The US has bombed Fordow and other sites.

Poynsettia · 22/06/2025 06:59

TheAutumnCrow · 22/06/2025 06:50

The question ‘is Israel the 51st state of the US?’ is discussed in Israel and the Occupied Territories by journalists, in universities and in the population generally. Some regard it as an existential question.

This is a typical example from Haaretz, 2018, that stuck in my mind.

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2018-05-31/ty-article-magazine/israel-declared-the-51st-state-of-the-united-states/0000017f-e8ad-df5f-a17f-fbff5a430000

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Thanks for that - somehow doesn’t seem to be discussed in the U.K.

Righteo · 22/06/2025 06:59

Birdsinginginthetrees · 22/06/2025 06:47

The difference between Israel and Iran couldn’t be more stark. Israel is a democratic ally to the West that doesn’t threaten to wipe countries off the map, doesn’t fund terrorist groups to destabilise the region, and doesn’t chant “Death to America” in its parliament. Iran does all of that—and more. Israel hasn’t signed the NPT, but it also hasn’t violated international agreements, lied to inspectors, or used its nuclear capabilities as a bargaining chip to spread chaos. The reason the world was so focused on Iran’s nuclear program is because Iran is a hostile regime with a proven record of violence, not because of some double standard—it’s because the threat was real, and dangerous.

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Israel can't lie to inspectors, as it doesn't let them in to inspect its nuclear weapons or facilities. Just saying.

Thegreyhound · 22/06/2025 07:02

Lifesd · 22/06/2025 02:56

No doubt there will be protests of support for Iran with marches through London. I sometimes wander what side a lot of people on this country are on. We know that there have been Iranian backed terrorist sleeper cells who were plotting to attack us so yes I support a targeted attack to deprive a despotic regime of nuclear weapons.

Maybe the side of the people, the civilians?

ohfook · 22/06/2025 07:02

PoopingAllTheWay · 22/06/2025 01:55

Iran will come back with something because they have to, they will not be shown to be weak.
Otherwise they are left open for anyone to just bomb them.

For those saying Good etc…
Im sorry but you arent glued up about what this can be the start of

You cant just go into a country because they have nuclear weapons. We have them, would it be ok for another country to do that to us, or the USA, or France, Pakistan, India, North Korea etc? No, and it would not be tolerated either

China & North Korea on the side of Iran.
As well as Pakistan so they can easily get ships, planes and air defences from those countries

This could be the start of something HUGE

TRUMP saying - Now time for PEACE
is rubbish - He wants to be a wartime president and go down in History and he knows what this is going to cause

USA targets will be hit in relation either a warship or a US airbase (in the middle east)

This isnt peace - This is just the start

Edited

You’ve summed up pretty succinctly something I’ve never understood and that’s why does the US get to decide who is allowed WMDs and who isn’t. Why is Isreal allowed them despite the fact Netanyahu is absolutely off his trolley, Russia too even though Putin is clearly not a rational man either but not Iraq and Iran?

mrsrtobinson · 22/06/2025 07:02

GentleSheep · 22/06/2025 01:41

Yep. I do think that Iran may retaliate by activating sleeper cells in the US. After all it can't bomb the US directly so that's it's best alternative.

Why are statements about this sort of event inevitably followed by 'the world is a safer place' because of this or that action. I honestly don't think it will be after this, even if it temporarily quiets the latest war between Israel and Iran.

Elam's bow is broken, though. Biblical prophecy fulfilled. (Jeremiah 49:35)

Indeed - https://www.facebook.com/oneforIsrael/posts/what-is-so-remarkable-is-that-the-bible-speaks-of-a-time-in-the-latter-days-when/1133542092130780/

TwoFeralKids · 22/06/2025 07:02

Well let's just say that I expect there will be attacks on American tourists etc now.

MoominUnderWater · 22/06/2025 07:03

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 06:57

Right, so this is all just a distraction for benefit reforms? Now I understand.

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I don’t think she was saying this? Just that if the uk govt had some bad news to bury they might take the opportunity to release it now hoping it doesn’t get too much coverage.

I don’t think she was saying Starmer convinced Trump to bomb Iran now so he could bury bad news. 🤷‍♀️

aphroditeflighty · 22/06/2025 07:03

France provided Israel with nuclear capability in the 1950's, and it was kept hushed and hidden, even from US inspections in the early 60's.
There are nine nuclear capable countries (known about), and each hold this approximate number of warheads.

Russia: 4,309
United States: 3,700
China: 600
France: 290
United Kingdom: 225 (used to be over 500 in the 1970's!)
India: 180
Pakistan: 170
Israel: 90
North Korea: 50

mrsrtobinson · 22/06/2025 07:04

ohfook · 22/06/2025 07:02

You’ve summed up pretty succinctly something I’ve never understood and that’s why does the US get to decide who is allowed WMDs and who isn’t. Why is Isreal allowed them despite the fact Netanyahu is absolutely off his trolley, Russia too even though Putin is clearly not a rational man either but not Iraq and Iran?

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Because Israel and USA have not sworn to destroy another sovereign country.

Iran has been threatening to remove Israel from the map for years.

Thegreyhound · 22/06/2025 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:06

Righteo · 22/06/2025 06:47

And like our servile PM, Starmer, they mealy mouthed state "Israel has a right to defend itself', whilst seeing that Israel is the first one to attack Iran then spew the same rubbish when the attacked country retaliates. No mention of Iran having a right to defend itself from it's attackers.

More galling when Starmer, a former human rights lawyer and head of the Crown Prosecution Service, repeatedly fails to acknowledge the clear evidence of war crimes conducted by the Israeli government including collective punishment, bombing of hospitals, schools, and the killing and starvation of a population.

Those claiming to be "stauch supporters of Israel" should be asking themselves, "why". Shouldn't a true friend be able to step in and tell someone that enough is enough, you have gone too far, as is the case with Gaza and bombing territories/countries left, right and centre"? When a friend/ally can"t be reasoned with we should walk away.

When will Starmer and other world leaders start listening to their populations that are horrified at the slaughter and carnage that Israel has inflicted on Gaza? When will they see that the Israeli government now has a bloodlust and territorial ambitions and nothing will stop them escalating further in the region until massive pressure is put on them in the form of sanctions, arms embargoes, etc?

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You need to understand Iran isn't an innocent bystander and it's not completely accurate to say Israel attacked Iran first when Iran have been arming and funding Hamas and Hesbolah for years to attack Israel for them. Iran make no secret that their sole aim is the destruction of Israel. That's why they finance and arm other groups to attack Israel on their behalf.

TheAutumnCrow · 22/06/2025 07:08

Poynsettia · 22/06/2025 06:59

Thanks for that - somehow doesn’t seem to be discussed in the U.K.

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We have a farcically facile level of public debate about the Middle East in the UK. God knows what it’s like in the US.

People who have never set foot in a Middle Eastern country and couldn’t even tell you who the Druze are or what happened at the Cairo Conference seem to nevertheless have some very bigly opinions.

Thegreyhound · 22/06/2025 07:09

mrsrtobinson · 22/06/2025 07:04

Because Israel and USA have not sworn to destroy another sovereign country.

Iran has been threatening to remove Israel from the map for years.

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Israel and the US have not sworn to destroy another country?
I see so it’s ok to actually destroy other countries buy its wrong if you swear you are going to do it

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:12

Thegreyhound · 22/06/2025 07:09

Israel and the US have not sworn to destroy another country?
I see so it’s ok to actually destroy other countries buy its wrong if you swear you are going to do it

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They haven't destroyed a country. They just prevented it from nuclear enrichment. Slight difference.

Moulook31 · 22/06/2025 07:12

savory · 22/06/2025 06:16

War war war - meanwhile they bomb starving Gazan who are desperately queing for food - these are our 'allies' ?

Indeed!

Righteo · 22/06/2025 07:13

Thegreyhound · 22/06/2025 07:09

Israel and the US have not sworn to destroy another country?
I see so it’s ok to actually destroy other countries buy its wrong if you swear you are going to do it

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👏👏👏

9448djdi · 22/06/2025 07:15

Can somebody tell me why it’s ok for Russia to have nuclear weapons and to actually invade Ukraine but not for Iran?

Sofiewoo · 22/06/2025 07:18

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:12

They haven't destroyed a country. They just prevented it from nuclear enrichment. Slight difference.

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Israel and the US haven’t destroyed other countries?

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:19

9448djdi · 22/06/2025 07:15

Can somebody tell me why it’s ok for Russia to have nuclear weapons and to actually invade Ukraine but not for Iran?

Because Russia can still be negotiated with diplomatically not to use them against their neighbours. Iran can't.

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:21

Sofiewoo · 22/06/2025 07:18

Israel and the US haven’t destroyed other countries?

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We are talking about Iran. Not other countries. Let's keep on topic. Iran have sworn an oath to destroy other countries. US and Israel have not sworn an oath to destroy Iran. They just removed their nuclear capability.

mrsrtobinson · 22/06/2025 07:23

TheAutumnCrow · 22/06/2025 07:08

We have a farcically facile level of public debate about the Middle East in the UK. God knows what it’s like in the US.

People who have never set foot in a Middle Eastern country and couldn’t even tell you who the Druze are or what happened at the Cairo Conference seem to nevertheless have some very bigly opinions.

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The Cairo conference in 1943 established the Hashemite kingdoms of Iraq and Jordan, with Prince Faisal and Prince Abdullah as rulers respectively.

The Hashamite Kingdom of Jordan still exists but the Hashamite Kingdom of Iraq does not because it was removed my a military coup in 1958. This involved members of the Hashemite Royal Family being murdered.

The Hashemites trace their lineage back the the prophet Abraham and consider themselves "guardians of the holy places" in Islam.

I'm not sure how this is relevant today.

9448djdi · 22/06/2025 07:23

Birdsinginginthetrees · 22/06/2025 06:47

The difference between Israel and Iran couldn’t be more stark. Israel is a democratic ally to the West that doesn’t threaten to wipe countries off the map, doesn’t fund terrorist groups to destabilise the region, and doesn’t chant “Death to America” in its parliament. Iran does all of that—and more. Israel hasn’t signed the NPT, but it also hasn’t violated international agreements, lied to inspectors, or used its nuclear capabilities as a bargaining chip to spread chaos. The reason the world was so focused on Iran’s nuclear program is because Iran is a hostile regime with a proven record of violence, not because of some double standard—it’s because the threat was real, and dangerous.

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Isreal is however committing genocide, carrying out war crimes, not listening to the rest of the world and is led by an incredibly dangerous leader who has Trump in his pocket, just like Putin does.

And you think this is safer and not double standards. 🤔

savory · 22/06/2025 07:24

Thank god we got rid of Iraq's weapons of mass detsruction or they could use them on us !

9448djdi · 22/06/2025 07:24

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:19

Because Russia can still be negotiated with diplomatically not to use them against their neighbours. Iran can't.

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Really- says who. Putin ignores whatever anybody says and is clearly not somebody who can be relied on.

Sofiewoo · 22/06/2025 07:24

OhCalmTheFuckDownBarbara · 22/06/2025 07:21

We are talking about Iran. Not other countries. Let's keep on topic. Iran have sworn an oath to destroy other countries. US and Israel have not sworn an oath to destroy Iran. They just removed their nuclear capability.

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And the US and Israel have both actually destroyed other countries with actions.