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Original poster

NatCs rally take 2

104 replies

jgw1 · 17/05/2023 21:35

AIBU to think that the recent NatCs rally in London has been an excellent opportunity for them to show the wider public who they are and what they truly believe for which we should all be very grateful?

OP posts:
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8
Begsthequestion · 18/05/2023 19:40

Jellycatbat20 · 18/05/2023 18:45

I think we have a new contender for Serena Joy....go Gilead!!!!!! But only if they're the right KIND of babies, obviously....

Worryingly, Elon Musk is also a proponent of increasing the 'white' birth rate. He's one of the richest people in the world and he keeps saying 'we" are heading for population collapse and need more people to be born. He means white people. So this kind of thinking is becoming mainstream in some circles I guess. Feels like far right elements are converging in many ways.

L1ttledrummergirl · 18/05/2023 22:04

DuncinToffee · 18/05/2023 16:48

“It is so offensive and so wrong, a completely fringe view of the Conservative Party… please can we stop talking about this?”

@matthancock on Danny Kruger’s NatCon speech about family and marriage.

https://twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1659215778389069825?t=f0GhPQ-kIWK_TR4Z2FqTSA&s=19

I don't think that's what's going to keep them out for a generation. It's just another nice piece of icing on the cake.

Exasperatednow · 18/05/2023 23:36

Miriam Joy Cates

Serena Joy Putnam.

The names are coincidence, the rest isn't.

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 08:55

Would that be to do with poverty , perchance?

Poverty is a significant underlying factor yes. But the correlation holds even when you control for socioeconomic factors/ use multivariate analysis.

Being born into a single parent family is an independent risk factor for adolescent crime, as is parental separation. That may be very unpalatable, but the research evidence is clear.

newnamethanks · 19/05/2023 09:00

I refer Philips, Starkey and their feverish supporters to Michael Rosen "Fascism". If you don't understand what you're supporting after reading and absorbing it then this country is in a terrible place, as we will all be, if this bunch of deluded narcissists is not shown the exit by voters. Asap.

IClaudine · 19/05/2023 10:18

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 08:55

Would that be to do with poverty , perchance?

Poverty is a significant underlying factor yes. But the correlation holds even when you control for socioeconomic factors/ use multivariate analysis.

Being born into a single parent family is an independent risk factor for adolescent crime, as is parental separation. That may be very unpalatable, but the research evidence is clear.

Could you link to the research you mention.

It's like going back to the 80s, blaming single parents for everything. Makes a change from immigrants, I suppose.

dontlookbackyourenotgoingthatway · 19/05/2023 10:29

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 08:55

Would that be to do with poverty , perchance?

Poverty is a significant underlying factor yes. But the correlation holds even when you control for socioeconomic factors/ use multivariate analysis.

Being born into a single parent family is an independent risk factor for adolescent crime, as is parental separation. That may be very unpalatable, but the research evidence is clear.

Link please?

IClaudine · 19/05/2023 10:38

How many of Johnson's abandoned children are out committing crime I wonder? Because if poverty etc. doesn't play a part then it would be surprising if none of them are, there are so many.

On the other hand, not being under the influence of their criminal father might be an advantage in the case of Johnson's progeny.

FergalforPM · 19/05/2023 11:27

DuncinToffee · 18/05/2023 19:31

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/05/national-conservatives-tories-dark-future

The importance of the conference is about what it tells us of the potential future of the Conservative Party. There is nothing inevitable here but it is a perfectly plausible – even likely – scenario that Sunak loses the next election, resigns and in the ensuing leadership election MPs allow a candidate to go forward – presumably Suella Braverman – who has an agenda very similar to that which we have heard this week. My confidence that the Conservative Party members would reject this nonsense is not overwhelming.

I agree - and sadly due to our electoral system and the number of safe seats and dyed in the wool Tories it's a serious concern.

Also the people I've seen on the previous thread and elsewhere who genuinely think the current regime is too left wing is really alarming.

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 12:05

How many of Johnson's abandoned children are out committing crime I wonder? Because if poverty etc. doesn't play a part

Good grief did you actually just do that??

I didn’t say poverty doesn’t play a part. It clearly does. Socioeconomic deprivation underpins most health and social inequalities.

But it’s not the only risk factor. It would be ridiculous to conclude that having 2 good parents isn’t advantageous. Easier to parent, more stable, conducive to forming good attachments, increased supervision, good role models, bonding to role models of both sexes, positive relationship modelling etc. It’s an emotive subject. No single parent wants to think this of course. Some single parents go through enough guilt and self blame we don’t want to make it worse.

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 12:08

Piggywaspushed · 18/05/2023 18:46

Is there a grain of truth in her support for Andrew Wakefield, her climate change denial or her implied Islamophobia directed at Obama? Struggling here.

I didn’t know she had supported Wakefield. That was a long time ago. Yes that is bad.

IClaudine · 19/05/2023 13:21

Good grief did you actually just do that??

Yes, obviously I did! 🙄

DuncinToffee · 19/05/2023 13:43

Some single parents go through enough guilt and self blame we don’t want to make it worse

Ah well that is good of you Confused

izimbra · 19/05/2023 13:49

The thing is you can't legislate to reduce the number of single parent families.

Which is why hearing politicians from the right bleating about the relationship between single parent families and crime, while simultaneously advocating cutting the legs from under social programmes intended to reduce the financial and social stress of lone parents, is so infuriating.

TooBigForMyBoots · 19/05/2023 15:16

DuncinToffee · 18/05/2023 19:31

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/05/national-conservatives-tories-dark-future

The importance of the conference is about what it tells us of the potential future of the Conservative Party. There is nothing inevitable here but it is a perfectly plausible – even likely – scenario that Sunak loses the next election, resigns and in the ensuing leadership election MPs allow a candidate to go forward – presumably Suella Braverman – who has an agenda very similar to that which we have heard this week. My confidence that the Conservative Party members would reject this nonsense is not overwhelming.

Maybe it's time they split. The Tory party is so divided that no one, not even their own members know what they stand for. High taxes or low taxes? High immigration or low immigration? House building or keeping house prices high through NIMBYism? A future for our young or pandering to the elderly?

They're a shambolic mess.

ToWhitToWhoo · 19/05/2023 15:45

Many are coming from misogynistic, homophobic etc. cultures

You mean like the sort of culture that the Nat-C speakers want us to go back to?

That isn't PURE snark on my part by the way; the Christian Right and the Muslim Right (and indeed the religious right of all religions - Braverman is in fact a Buddhist!) really do have a fair bit in common, and are likely IMO to unite increasingly against secularism as time goes on. The De Santises and Orbans and Erdogans and Modis have more in common than they'd sometimes like to think!

DuncinToffee · 19/05/2023 16:08

DeSantis was warmly welcomed by the Conservative party on his recent visit and he endorses Badenoch.

Piggywaspushed · 19/05/2023 16:24

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 12:08

I didn’t know she had supported Wakefield. That was a long time ago. Yes that is bad.

Show quote history

Not the otehr things then. Just that.

Ant vaxx conspirators bad

Islamophobia fine.

Noted.

Piggywaspushed · 19/05/2023 16:28

LikeWater · 19/05/2023 08:55

Would that be to do with poverty , perchance?

Poverty is a significant underlying factor yes. But the correlation holds even when you control for socioeconomic factors/ use multivariate analysis.

Being born into a single parent family is an independent risk factor for adolescent crime, as is parental separation. That may be very unpalatable, but the research evidence is clear.

What's your background to assert this? Even in your first linked piece of research it admits research evidence is conflicting and weak. Would you like me to root out contradictory evidence?

You haven't answered my previous question : have you read Londonistan? You seem to think it was a 'comment'. It's an entire book.

AnElegantChaos · 20/05/2023 11:45

I refer Philips, Starkey and their feverish supporters to Michael Rosen "Fascism". If you don't understand what you're supporting after reading and absorbing it then this country is in a terrible place, as we will all be, if this bunch of deluded narcissists is not shown the exit by voters. Asap.

Shame that Rosen - a fascinating and intelligent guy - turned a bit crankety crank himself.

izimbra · 20/05/2023 12:49

"Shame that Rosen - a fascinating and intelligent guy - turned a bit crankety crank himself."

He's a 'crank'? By which you mean 'eccentric' and 'odd'? Aren't most poets a bit odd?

Whatever - this poem is going to ring a big old bell for a lot of people watching current goings on on the right atm.

Fascism: I sometimes fear...
I sometimes fear that
people think that fascism arrives in fancy dress
worn by grotesques and monsters
as played out in endless re-runs of the Nazis.

Fascism arrives as your friend.
It will restore your honour,
make you feel proud,
protect your house,
give you a job,
clean up the neighbourhood,
remind you of how great you once were,
clear out the venal and the corrupt,
remove anything you feel is unlike you...

It doesn't walk in saying,
"Our programme means militias, mass imprisonments, transportations, war and persecution."

Piggywaspushed · 20/05/2023 13:10

AnElegantChaos · 20/05/2023 11:45

I refer Philips, Starkey and their feverish supporters to Michael Rosen "Fascism". If you don't understand what you're supporting after reading and absorbing it then this country is in a terrible place, as we will all be, if this bunch of deluded narcissists is not shown the exit by voters. Asap.

Shame that Rosen - a fascinating and intelligent guy - turned a bit crankety crank himself.

You are going to have to explain that.

newnamethanks · 21/05/2023 07:24

Crankety-crank he may be, everyone ages and he's had a few awful years. That doesn't take away from what he's written. If you think that should be dismissed then I suggest you have a word with yourself.

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