To think political discussion does belong on Mumsnet

[HermioneWeasley]

At the protest for the Scottish gender reform bill last night. We silly women are only permitted to talk about prams and weaning don’t you know?

Nothing. I’d just like to see data that shows lesbians wanting them. I can’t find any. I have seen articles about lesbians being pressured into having sex with trans women, which obviously is disgusting and wrong. But I can’t find anything specific about single sex spaces.

I’d like them to say that for themselves - as a gay person, it’s really irritating when straight people campaign for what they think we want. It’s condescending and patronising. I can’t find any data on it so please provide me with some if you have it, but in my experience lesbians are more like to be pro trans than not. Including trans women in female spaces.

Do you get to speak for all lesbians? My friend is a lesbian and understands the need for same sex spaces. Just speak for yourself.

I’d like them to say that for themselves - as a gay person, it’s really irritating when straight people campaign for what they think we want.

There are many, many gay women who want to retain single sex dating apps and spaces.

So what do we do with that info?

Nothing. I’d just like to see data that shows lesbians wanting them. I can’t find any

it's possibly on the FWR board that you fear to tread but there's an article in the Times today asking for exactly that. So sure, she doesn't speak for all lesbians. But nor do you.

I'll see if i can find the link to spare your eyes.

No, that’s why I’d like some data on it. I can’t find anything showing that the majority of lesbians want single sex spaces.

Lmao I don’t fear it, what’s the thread called? I’ll have a look.

Nothing. I’d just like to see data that shows lesbians wanting them

Theres plenty on Twitter.

You'll also find posters on FWR here who want that. But if you're never looking in places where people might have a different view from you, you'll have a problem.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/82515090-980f-11ed-91ab-4070465550ba?shareToken=6dcf538a69e87a8f07c3c2730148cdd7

don't be daft, there doesn't need to be data. There are plenty of women, lesbians and not, who want single sex spaces. There are enough of them that TRAs spend a lot of time shouting them down.

Then there are women, some of whom are lesbians, who don't mind sharing what were single-sex women's spaces, with transwomen. And that is also fine. So what is needed is space for women who want single-sex spaces, and other space for those who don't mind sharing with transwomen. That's really not too much to ask.

And i speak as someone who really doesn't care as long as people aren't pestering me.

It does but it should be in the correct topic area The constant trans issues in every forum are putting me off using Mumsnet.

Keep to the correct topics

But is that just individual experiences, or is it a set of data? Because if it’s a group of lesbians on here saying they want that, and a group saying they don’t, then surely it’s not a lesbian issue? It’s just some women want single sex spaces who happen to also be lesbians?

it is in the correct topic. The title is in AIBU - To think political discussion does belong on Mumsnet

there's even a poll

But is that just individual experiences, or is it a set of data?

do you know what data is though? it's a lot of single events all added together.

In all seriousness, who is going to collect that data?

Stonewall? LGB Alliance?

Have you seen the latest polls on the intolerance of younger people? Do you realise that many young people, of both sexes, simply never let on their real thoughts to friends because they don't want to lose friends. They certainly don't want to lose their support groups, to feel isolated in their schools/universities or workplaces.

Do you ever wonder which of your friends and acquaintances are not being truthful with you?

So, who would collect that data and how?

Because if it’s a group of lesbians on here saying they want that, and a group saying they don’t, then surely it’s not a lesbian issue?

Its not about 'data', but about you not speaking for all lesbians and giving away their rights.

if you want mixed spaces, go to them. They already exist. Create them if you need more. But why do you get to shut down single sex lesbian spaces of other lesbians still want them? No matter what numbers we're talking about.

It's in the correct place. Unless you've been living on the moon trans issues have been a hot topic politically for a while now. We are allowed to discuss it, whether you like it or now.

Yes but it’s hardly a mass sample is it? Just a few people anonymously saying it on mumsnet. You don’t even know they’re individual people. I just wondered if any data had been collected and analysed on a national or international scale across demographics.

*not

So now we have to have proof in a survey that women who are only attracted to women don't want penises in their spaces?

By definition they don't want men in their dating pool so it would be pretty safe to assume they don't want men in their changing rooms. What lesbians don't want to sleep with men but are fine being flashed by penis people? It doesn't make sense. Make it make sense.

I just wondered if any data had been collected and analysed on a national or international scale across demographics.

it would be interesting. But it is not needed. There are voices outside, Let Women Speak is usually more than one person, saying exactly that.

And we're not just talking about lesbians.

Self Id trades away the rights of women prisoners, abuse victims, disabled and ill, orthodox religious to single sex provision.

Also

• hats
• public transport
• hot weather
• doctors taking medical histories
• the term “FGM”
• women talking about anything to do with our biology

Why can't we just have facilities and options that work for everyone? Equality of access and inclusion?

Mixed sex women's spaces for those males who identify as women and women who don't want or need female only spaces

female only spaces for females who do want this and rely on it to be able to access a space at all?

Simple answer. Everyone be whoever you want, respect other people's needs and spaces, we dance, we sing, we go home happy. Right?

Because if only 5% of lesbians want single sex spaces (that’s an example, it may well be more) it’s not lesbians that want single sex spaces, it’s women who happen to also be lesbians.

This would be ideal.

I'm a lesbian who's not ok with mixed sex lesbian groups and dating, and needs single sex spaces to be able to access a number of things.

Hi. Nice to meet you.